--- Log opened Thu Sep 06 00:00:08 2007
00:00 < phire> good point
00:00 < phire> worth buying?
00:02 < WhiteNNerdy> got any other unencrypted firmware like 2nd gen???
00:04 < cdm> I already had an iPhone and so if I couldn't afford an iPhone I would get the touch.
00:05 < cdm> I guess -- but I like the "always" data connection of iphone.
00:06 < phire> any chance officially supported 3rd party apps will be coming in the future?
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00:07 < cdm> dude -- are you really asking an Apple employee to comment to "some guy" about what Apple is doing in the future?
00:08 < WhiteNNerdy> :cdm any possible way that you can pm a link to the firmware?
00:09 < prashantv> rofl
00:09 < phire> hmm, no it was more, is the compablity there that apple could possibley do that in the future, but I guess thats the smae thing
00:09 < phire> *same
00:15 < WhiteNNerdy> he makes a good point
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00:16 < WhiteNNerdy> So cdm is it possible or not?
00:16 < BeckieRGB> WnN really wants a kick.
00:17 < WhiteNNerdy> Why do you say that?
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00:22 < phire> WhiteNNerdy, he is not going to leak the firmware to you
00:22 < phire> apple employees don't do that kind of thing, only microsoft employees
00:23 < WhiteNNerdy> True. Why should he. I know I'm just an annoying freakshow
00:23 < WhiteNNerdy> apple employees are loyal
00:23 < phire> well, you would too you you got free iphones
00:23 < WhiteNNerdy> yeah, Who wouldn't
00:24 < phire> your better to try and get the encryption key out of the ram
00:24 < phire> is the ram chip extenal?
00:25 < WhiteNNerdy> I think that brute force attack would be smarter, less dangerous and less cost
00:25 < phire> what is the key size?
00:26 < WhiteNNerdy> might take longer but unless someone gives me a free ipod nano 2nd gen I wont be able to hack it out
00:26 < WhiteNNerdy> who know?
00:26 < WhiteNNerdy> *knows
00:26 < WhiteNNerdy> cdm would know but confidential information there
00:27 < phire> well, you can't brute force a key, unless you know the key size, and encryption/decryption algorithm
00:27 < scorche> leave the guy alone...
00:27 < phire> yea, its not his fault he works for apple
00:27 < BleuLlama> WhiteNNerdy: ask another question you know he can't answer, and i'll kick you.
00:27 < WhiteNNerdy> I'm not asking him to answer it but ok understrood.
00:27  * BleuLlama works at http://icuiti.com, and basically has 2 of each of the products
00:28 < BleuLlama> WhiteNNerdy: on my screen right now, i see two questions you're asking him.  quit it.
00:28 < WhiteNNerdy> understood
00:28 < phire> bleuLama, nice
00:29 < BleuLlama> Consider that your only warning.
00:30 < WhiteNNerdy> phire: u can brute force attack anything with programs. YOu can set a high character guess and it starts trying with one character up to whatever you set up for a maximum. At least that is to my understanding
00:30 < phire> thats only for known algorithms
00:31 < WhiteNNerdy> ohh ok
00:32 < BleuLlama> WhiteNNerdy: spell out your words in here.
00:32 < phire> if you don't know the algorithm your suck with having to try every single key, in every single variation of every single knowing algorithm 
00:32 < WhiteNNerdy> Sorry its a baf habit to not spell out words.
00:33 < WhiteNNerdy> *bad
00:34 < phire> read this article, http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistakes_Microsoft_Made_in_the_Xbox_Security_System
00:43 < WhiteNNerdy> Is there anyhting specific I'm looking for?
00:44 < phire> no, not really
00:44 < phire> but if your going to hack something, look at similar things, might get ideas
00:45 < WhiteNNerdy> okay, Yeah I thought you were pointing into hacking the security features of the ipods.
00:50 < phire> is there any firmware updates for the 2nd gen nano?
00:53 < WhiteNNerdy> i do not know. I think there was one but I do not know were to find it
00:55 < WhiteNNerdy> why do you ask?
01:08 < phire> comparison between versions, what stays the same, what changes, maybe you can work out the encryption type from that
01:13 < phire> if large sections of the cypher text stays the same, but certain blocks are different, then you know both, that its a block based encryption and the size of the blocks
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01:55 < rvvs89> Interesting... the iPod nano now has virtually the same features as the "Classic"
01:55 < rvvs89> It even runs iPodGames
01:56 < rvvs89> And can use the camera connector...
01:56 < rvvs89> Hmm...
01:56 < BleuLlama> well, it runs games, not necessarily the same ones that exist now
01:57 < BleuLlama> but yeah. same screen res, same features, just smaller, and flash based
01:57 < rvvs89> Well, I'm basically just speculating based on what I can see in the iTunes store ^^
01:58 < rvvs89> but I'd say the new nano looks like it is quite similar to the new HDD based iPod
01:58 < rvvs89> Hopefully the iPod Classic is still a portal player device heh
01:59 < BleuLlama> "coming soon: tetris, mspac-man and sudoku will soon be compatible with ipod nano(video) and ipod classic)
01:59 < BleuLlama> so, it'll be a different rebuild of the games
01:59 < rvvs89> Ah, well there you go
01:59 < rvvs89> There goes that 4 minutes of dreaming heh
02:05 < BleuLlama> i wonder if i'll have to re-buy the games for the new ipods, or if it'll be a free upgrade
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04:14 < Greenbox> will ipodlinux attempt to run on ipod touch?
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04:21 < rvvs89> Greenbox: nope
04:21 < rvvs89> BleuLlama: If you have to buy them again, that would be quite lame
04:22 < rvvs89> DerPapst: Meh, even if IRAM was 10x slower than DRAM I would still be using it, it's the cache coherency issue
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06:58 < perror> What I feared happened --> http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/
06:59 < perror> What should be questionned now is: how much did the plateform change (hardware/firmware/software)
07:02 < BHSPitMonkey> think anybody knows at this point?
07:02 < BHSPitMonkey> this room isn't full of mad wealthy people
07:06 < perror> Well, some information might have leaked or some crazy people might have put some data on their website over night.
07:06 < perror> It doesn't cost anything to ask.
07:07 < perror> By the way, is it on sale by now ? (didn't find the price)
07:12 < perror> It's from 299$ to 399$ (depending of the memory capacity) --> http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/05/technology/apple_announcement/?postversion=2007090514
07:13 < perror> There is a thread about it at Slashdot --> http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/05/1830228&from=rss
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07:36 < phire> perror, the 8gb at $399 is the new price, the 4gb at $299 is just temporarily until they run out of stock
07:37 < perror> phire: Apple's marketing techniques.... :)
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13:03 < Dark> hello i need some help
13:05 < Dark> i have install my ipod manualy in windows. but if i chose linux its say BUG at buffer.o
13:05 < Dark> and i cant reboot the ipod.
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15:01 < Justcameron> okay folks
15:01 < Justcameron> help
15:01 < Justcameron> :)
15:02 < Justcameron> I'm having trouble installing loader 2 onto my windows ipod. I have windows xp and a photo ipod
15:02 < Justcameron> I want to install loader 2 so I can boot the apple firmware by default and rockbox as secondary
15:03 < Justcameron> I'm following the tutorial at http://ipodlinux.org/Loader_2#Manual_installation
15:04 < Justcameron> first I ran:
15:04 < Justcameron> ipodpatcher.exe 1 -r bootpartition.bin
15:04 < Justcameron> which worked fine
15:04 < Justcameron> [INFO] Partition extracted to bootpartition.bin.
15:04 < Justcameron> but then...
15:04 < Justcameron> ipod_fw.exe -g photo -o iplboot.bin -i apple_os.bin loader.bin
15:04 < Justcameron> Cannot open firmware image file apple_os.bin
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15:22 < kick52> new pods eh
15:24 < rvvs89> Justcameron: Apparently you didn't "ipod_fw.exe -o apple_os.bin -e 0 bootpartition.bin"
15:24 < Justcameron> rvvs89: yeah I just worked that out
15:24 < Justcameron> thanks very much
15:25  * Justcameron can't read, clearly
15:25 < rvvs89> :P
15:25 < Justcameron> so does it put the new file on the ipod automatically, or do I have to move it over?
15:25 < Justcameron> because my ipod is still booting into rockbox
15:27 < rvvs89> Justcameron: did you have the rockbox bootloader on there before?
15:28 < Justcameron> rvvs89: um, I had rockbox installed before
15:29 < rvvs89> Right
15:29 < rvvs89> Well, the instructions are for an iPod with an unmodified firmware partition...
15:29 < Justcameron> ah
15:29 < rvvs89> You could play around with make_fw to get it sorted out
15:30 < Justcameron> so uninstall rockbox, then follow the instructions again, then install rockbox?
15:30 < rvvs89> that would be easiest, yep
15:30 < Justcameron> okay
15:30 < Justcameron> thanks for your help so far :)
15:31 < rvvs89> If you didn't do the final step then I don't think it did any changes to your firmware partition after those by rockbox
15:31 < rvvs89> Or maybe you did and it failed
15:31 < Justcameron> it says:
15:32 < Justcameron> C:\Documents and Settings\Cameron\Desktop\iPodLoader>ipod_fw.exe -g photo -o iplboot.bin -i apple_os.bin loader.bin
15:32 < Justcameron> Generating firmware image compatible with iPod mini, 4g and iPod photo/color...
15:32 < Justcameron> C:\Documents and Settings\Cameron\Desktop\iPodLoader>
15:34 < rvvs89> Yes but you didn't write it to the firmware
15:34 < rvvs89> ipodpatcher.exe NUMBER -w iplboot.bin
15:35 < Justcameron> I really cannot read tonight
15:35 < rvvs89> Well, good luck, I need to sleep
15:35 < rvvs89> 'night
15:35 < Justcameron> I read the line above and thought "oh that's only for nano 1g people"
15:36 < Justcameron> thankyou very much!
15:36 < Justcameron> sleep well
15:42 < BHSPitMonkey> so
15:43 < BHSPitMonkey> I'm guessing iPodTouchLinux is about as far-fetched as iPhoneLinux for the time being, amirite
15:46 < BleuLlama> if by "far-fetched' you mean pointless. yeah
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16:26 < perror> BleuLlama: Pointless wouldn't be the right word, but 'out-of-reach for now and possibly for a long time...', yes.
16:26 < perror> How can we reverse properly a platform if they are changing that fast ???
16:26 < perror> tell me. ;-/
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16:27  * DerPapst added a demo of the dynamic wiki to DataGhost's wiki. yay :D
16:28 < DerPapst> including pretty images ;)
16:28 < DerPapst> perror: pointles becasue that thing already runs OSX
16:29 < DerPapst> and might be as hackable as the iPhone.
16:29 < DerPapst> i expect it to be j-tagged one week after the release :P
16:30 < perror> DerPapst: Hmmm, music to my ear. You're very likely right.
16:31 < perror> The applications on both looks the same.
16:33 < perror> DerPapst: But, would you consider the iPodTouch as an iPod ? Looks more like an iPhone, then.
16:35 < courtc> we don't get to define what iPods are.
16:36 < DerPapst> it has "iPod" laserd on it's backside.. so yes ;)
16:38 < courtc> Is running linux on my iBook pointless
16:38 < courtc> ?
16:39 < DerPapst> hell yes!
16:39 < courtc> What about running linux on a pc? Also pointless?
16:39 < DerPapst> very.
16:39 < DerPapst> ;)
16:40 < courtc> I thought so... You can *already* run custom applications on a pc.
16:41 < courtc> As you can see, BleuLlama and I have differing opinions.
16:41 < DerPapst> so linux is pointless... we should port osx or WinCE to the iPod. :P
16:45 < courtc> Funny how opendarwin died a miserable death...
16:46 < courtc> Didn't even know.
16:57 < DerPapst> wow.. didn't notice either.
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17:04 < BleuLlama> perror: in my opinion, it's pointless to port ipl to iPod touch.  that's my own opinion
17:07 < BleuLlama> regular iPods are not user expandable, so it makes sense to me to put linux on there so that you can put your own software on it
17:08 < BleuLlama> iPodTouch/iPhone are running OS X, there already exist hacks to run your own software on it 
17:08 < BleuLlama> courtc: linux on a PC is a good alternative to XP, or any of the other OS's out there.
17:09 < BleuLlama> i was never talking about OS's on PCs.
17:09 < BleuLlama> i respect your opinions, and i won't stop you from porting uClinux or another flavor of linux to the iPodTouch, but I just won't partake in that effort.  I'd rather focus any thin amount of time i have on the older iPods
17:10 < BleuLlama> that's just me though
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17:41 < jackson12> can i get some help?
17:42 < jackson12> ???
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18:06 < ghostrider> i have to buy a new ipod nano soon, i have seen the new 3g nano, but i will buy the nano 2g which is more tested. if today the linux kernel don't work on the 2g, on the 3g will never work?
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18:13 < courtc> leachbj: heya!
18:16 < DerPapst> ghostrider: if you want iPl on your new iPod then you HAVE TO buy a first gen nano 
18:16 < DerPapst> not the 2nd and not the 3rd
18:17 < DerPapst> iPL support for the 2nd gen nano might never come.
18:17 < DerPapst> same for the 3rd gen nano and any other ipods newer then the 5.5G one
18:17 < DerPapst> brb.. food :)
18:18 < ghostrider> oh my god
18:18 < BleuLlama> "might never come" -> "is probable that it won't ever come"
18:18 < BleuLlama> it might be possible, but requires significant effort, or very very clever person. ;)
18:22  * BleuLlama is not that clever
18:24 < perror> or both... :)
18:24 < perror> a significant effort to clever person.
18:25 < BleuLlama> fair enough
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19:08 < kick52> wait, why does 2g nano not work? it is the encrypted firmware, right?
19:09 < BleuLlama> yep
19:15 < kick52> 5.5g isnt encrypted then?
19:16 < fxb> it's not
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19:44 < DataGhost> I didn't get the quantum computer I asked for my birthday so sorry, no iPL on nano2G+/6G/touch
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20:42 < Mad93> hi, i'm having problems with the installer, it says Disk 0: not an iPod
20:42 < Mad93> disk 0 = sda?
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20:50 < kick52> disk 0 is probably your hard drive, try "mount" and see if you can see your ipod
20:56 < DerPapst> DataGhost: bummer
20:56 < DataGhost> what did I say again?
20:56 < DataGhost> ohyes heh
20:56 < DataGhost> Now Playing: 10207. iQuiz Theme (00:37/01:43, 128Kbps, m4a)
20:56 < DataGhost> from 6G :P and I know the answers, woohoo
20:57 < DerPapst> eh.. you have a new 6G?
20:57 < DataGhost> noooooo not just yet :)
20:57 < DerPapst> heh
20:57 < Mad93> i can mount it
20:58 < Mad93> maybe is the Sysinfo thing
20:58 < DataGhost> oh you're talking about your own iPod
20:58 < DataGhost> anyway, it's faily normal for a disk to be mountable. That doesn't mean it's an iPod, though.
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21:00 < DerPapst> you lie!
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21:03 < DataGhost> fairly* indeed! I spelled it wrong!
21:04 < DerPapst> hehe
21:05 < Mad93> Now i've changed the SysInfo file
21:05 < Mad93> and says Disk 1: cannot read MBR
21:07 < Mad93> I'll do it manually...
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21:18 < kick52> night
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21:44 < Mad93> what you recomend me, podzilla o podzilla2?
21:49 < Mad93> there are no builds of the kernel?
21:49 < Mad93> it redirects to me to the source code page
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21:50 < Bi-noix> Mad93: pz2
21:51 < Mad93> thanks Bi-noix
21:51 < Mad93> i must compile myself the kernel?
21:51 < Bi-noix> no
21:52 < Mad93> i can't find them in the wiki ><
21:52 < Mad93> can you give a link please?
21:54 < Bi-noix> didn't find either :|
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21:54 < Mad93> says something about patches and all, but i can't find the builds
21:55 < Mad93> and the svn links seem to be down
21:56 < Mad93> found them
21:56 < Mad93> they are on sf.net
21:57 < Mad93> but not builds ><
22:02 < Mad93> someone have a working kernel for the nano first gen?
22:04 < Bi-noix> in fact, yes
22:05 < Bi-noix> i downloaded it recently
22:06 < Mad93> you can sent it to me please?
22:07 < Mad93> here or by mail wathever you prefer
22:09 < Mad93> ><
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22:22 < Mad93> :))))))
22:22 < Mad93> a kernel panic in my ipod, i like it XF
22:22 < Mad93> XD
22:24 < davina> nn all
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22:50 < Mad93> if the kernel complains about init file, is due to pozilla2 is not installed no?
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23:49 < Mad93> it's amazing, thank you for your work and help ;)
--- Log closed Fri Sep 07 00:00:00 2007