--- Log opened Tue Aug 28 00:00:06 2007 00:11 -!- Torahteen [n=jordan@207-119-159-161.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #ipodlinux 00:11 < Torahteen> Hey guys, any devs here? 00:19 < courtc> indeed 00:19 < Torahteen> Hehe, neeto 00:19 < Torahteen> Ok 00:20 < Torahteen> I've decided I'd rather use nano-x for my GUI than create my own wystem 00:20 < courtc> Good decision. 00:20 < Torahteen> Hehe 00:20 < Torahteen> So far though, I've found no information about how one goes about creating a window manager for it 00:21 < Torahteen> Is the first program run on the server made the root window? 00:21 < courtc> I had one at one point... 00:21 < Torahteen> There was a post on the forums 00:21 < Torahteen> Someone was having trouble, it wasn't running in network mode or something like that 00:22 < courtc> Yea, that was me. 00:22 < Torahteen> Ah lol 00:22 < Torahteen> What was that about? 00:22 < courtc> I'm pretty sure I forgot to enable shmem on the server properly. 00:23 < Torahteen> So... do you have a compiled version of nano-x for ipl? 00:24 < courtc> maybe. 00:24 < courtc> Probably, but I'd have to find it. 00:25 < Torahteen> I could probably do it 00:25 < Torahteen> http://www.microwindows.org/ProgrammingIntro1.html 00:25 < Torahteen> You follow that? 00:25 < courtc> nope. 00:25 < Torahteen> Does ipl have a framebuffer that nano-x would be able to use? 00:26 < Torahteen> Or do I have to use the built-in drivers 00:27 < courtc> http://ipodlinux.org/Building_Podzilla_%28legacy%29#Microwindows 00:27 < Torahteen> Hehe, ok, I'm really having to rethink things 00:27 < Torahteen> Ah, ok 00:30 < Torahteen> Hmm... 00:30 < Torahteen> INCJPEG = /home/YourUserName/ipodlinux/libjpeg/ipod 00:30 < Torahteen> LIBJPEG = /home/YourUserName/ipodlinux/libjpeg/ipod/libjpeg.a 00:30 < Torahteen> That supposed to be on my iPod or on my computer? 00:32 < courtc> computer, you need a compiled jpeg lib for your ipod. Look further up on that page. 00:34 < Torahteen> ah, I see 00:34 < Torahteen> Ok, that's enough for now 00:34 < Torahteen> Time to expirement, thanks 00:42 -!- fxb is now known as fxb__ 01:29 -!- HellDragon [n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon] has joined #ipodlinux 01:40 -!- annulus_ [n=ap@h29n1fls33o286.telia.com] has joined #ipodlinux 01:48 -!- thegeek [n=nnscript@s189a.studby.ntnu.no] has joined #ipodlinux 02:10 < Torahteen> Hey courtc, where can I get the ipodlinux config file for microwindows? 02:12 < courtc> Should be in CVS 02:13 < Torahteen> Hmm... ok 02:22 < Torahteen> Did you say that HAVE_SHAREDMEM_SUPPORT needs to be Y? 02:32 < Torahteen> Well, I got it to compile quite easily 02:32 -!- rager [n=Administ@64.125.162.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32 < Torahteen> Now where are the binaries? 02:37 < Torahteen> the nanox site says they end up in /src/bin 02:37 < Torahteen> I see four executables in there 02:37 < Torahteen> convbdf convbmp nxkbd nxkbd.gdb 02:37 < Torahteen> Which is which? 02:38 < BeckieRGB> What are you compiling? 02:38 < Torahteen> Nano-x 02:38 < Torahteen> AKA Microwindows 02:38 < BeckieRGB> It's a library; it gets compiled into something else. 02:39 < BeckieRGB> Or into a .a file. 02:39 < Torahteen> It's not a library :S 02:39 < Torahteen> It's supposed to be the Window Server 02:39 < BeckieRGB> Hmm... 02:40 < courtc> heh. you need to modify it properly to be a window server 02:40 < Torahteen> Eh... ok, I'm confused XD 02:40 < courtc> You need to modify the config file. 02:40 < courtc> I'll help you out a bit later, currently I'm a tad busy. 02:40 < Torahteen> I'm trying to make a Desktop GUI for the iPod. Windows however aren't gonna be able to be moved or anything but I intend to have multiple windows 02:41 < Torahteen> I thought nano-x was basically just a smaller more streamlined version of X11 (not to mention portable 02:42 < BeckieRGB> It is, but the ipl version isn't set up to run as a server. 02:42 < Torahteen> Ah, ok... would you know how to set it up to be run as a server? 02:42 < BeckieRGB> courtc does; I don't. 02:43 < Torahteen> Darn 02:46 < Torahteen> Well then, I guess courtc will have to help me tomorrow 02:46 < Torahteen> BTW, does the library that nano-x distributes work in ipl? Or will I have to make a library myself? 02:48 < BleuLlama> i thought the old build instructions tell you step by step how to build nanox for ipl 02:48 < Torahteen> Yeah, but apparently not to be run as a server 02:48 < Torahteen> Which is what I'm looking for 02:50 < BleuLlama> why aren't you just building it as a static library into your application? 02:50 < Torahteen> I'm making a window manager for IPL 02:51 < BleuLlama> okay 02:51 < BleuLlama> out of curiosity, why? 02:51 < BleuLlama> ipod != desktop machine 02:52 < BleuLlama> nano-x/microwindows != X11 02:52 < courtc> it can be very similar though. :p 02:52 < Torahteen> Yeah 02:53 < Torahteen> The point of my project is to allow a better development environment 02:53 < Torahteen> I'm sorry, but I rather dislike PZ 02:53 < BleuLlama> fair enough 02:53 < courtc> Perhaps explaining why would fuel changes/enhancements. 02:54 < Torahteen> Hmm... 02:54 < BleuLlama> i'm not sure that anyone has ever done nano-x as a server... it's always been a static lib, as far as i know. 02:54 < BleuLlama> (on the ipod that is) 02:54 < Torahteen> It's rather slow 02:54 < Torahteen> The whole module idea just doesn't really work I think 02:55 < Torahteen> I'd rather have a nicer "Desktop" like appearance personally 02:55 < courtc> So you intend to go back to a monolithic design? 02:55 < BleuLlama> the problem there is that the user input device is one dimensional, so it doesn't lend itself to a 2d desktop idea 02:56 < BleuLlama> courtc: i think he's instead going to have a window server a la X11, and individual apps which run and display stuff through it (like X apps) 02:56 < BleuLlama> or am i mistaken? 02:56 < BleuLlama> there's a lot of overhead involved with all of that though. 02:56 < courtc> Ah, that would be interesting, but even slower. 02:56 < BleuLlama> yep 02:56 < BleuLlama> it's worth experimenting with though. but yeah, it will be much slower 02:57 < Torahteen> We'll see how much slower it is 02:57 < courtc> I did some experimentation on that back in the day, but it wasn't worth the extra server expense. 02:57 < Torahteen> I figured, not too much updating is going to be needed 02:57 < Torahteen> I mean of the screen 02:57 < Torahteen> And as for the input 02:57 < Torahteen> I don't intend for windows to be movable 02:58 < BleuLlama> plus, with the limited ram and cpu, which'll get chewed up by all of the apps and their own interface to the x server 02:58 < Torahteen> They can be minimized, but only run maximized 02:58 < Torahteen> Yeah, that was one of my problems 02:58 < BleuLlama> plus the task/program overhead that the OS requires too... 02:58 < Torahteen> Wait, what? 02:59 < courtc> mainly because shared libraries don't really exist.. Although they could, technically... 02:59 < Torahteen> Oh... 02:59 < Torahteen> Shoot, those haven't been implemented? 02:59 < BleuLlama> if you're going to be running each of the programs, each of them will need to be launched by the OS, each of them need their own static library interface to the x11 server, each of them will get their timeslice 02:59 < Torahteen> Or because they haven't been ported? 03:00 < BleuLlama> the OS doesn't support shared libraries, afaik 03:00 < courtc> and each of them will have a copy of uclibc. 03:00 < courtc> Well, it can ;) 03:00 < BleuLlama> yep. uclibc. forgot about that too 03:00 < BleuLlama> heh. true 03:00 < BleuLlama> that's why podzilla2 uses its own shared library loading routines 03:00 < Torahteen> Dangit... ok, I didn't expect that 03:01 < Torahteen> I considered that 03:01 < Torahteen> A friend of mine has had experience in loading programs from withing his own written program in DOS, then running it from there 03:02 < courtc> haha, dos is entirely different than linux. much less complex. 03:02 < BleuLlama> fork, exec 03:02 < Torahteen> No Bleu, I mean he loaded the file into memory on his own, set up exports for the standard C library, and ran the program 03:02 < Torahteen> He didn't do shared libraries, but perhaps he could help me figure something out 03:02 < Torahteen> Damn, that will be slow... 03:03 < courtc> That also won't work. 03:03 < Torahteen> But you think it could run 2 programs or so? 03:03 < BleuLlama> you can run 32 programs. 03:03 < BleuLlama> but with a 75mhz cpu and 4mb of ram, they each won't be able to do much 03:03 < Torahteen> Yeah, 03:03 < Torahteen> 4mb? 03:04 < Torahteen> I thought the iPod had 64 :\ 03:04 < BleuLlama> er. sorry. DS on the brain 03:04 < BleuLlama> 32mb 03:04 < Torahteen> lol 03:04 < Torahteen> DS? 03:04 < Torahteen> Nintendo? 03:04 < BleuLlama> yeah 03:04 < Torahteen> The 5G has 64 03:04 < Torahteen> Thing is, I planned to write this for the 5G only 03:04 < BleuLlama> also, you'll have to add something in the OS to manage the COP 03:04 < Torahteen> *waits to get slapped by all the 4G and under users* 03:04 < Torahteen> COP? 03:05 < BleuLlama> only the 60/80 gig 5G has 64mb, and linux doesn't see it. it sees only the first 32mb 03:05 < courtc> shared libraries must be properly copied so that functions/data don't overlap on each execution. 03:05 < Torahteen> Oh, well... ok 03:05 < BleuLlama> which, with the malloc bug, could go away quickly if you're running a bunch of apps 03:05 < Torahteen> Courtc, yeah, I know that 03:05 < Torahteen> Yeah, I'm praying someone will go in and try to figure that out 03:05 < courtc> I can technically implement a fully compatible shared library scheme within ipodlinux, but it's a lot of work that I don't have much motivation for. 03:06 < Torahteen> What does FREE not do? 03:06 < courtc> free 03:06 < Torahteen> lol 03:06 < Torahteen> Has it even been implemented? 03:06 < courtc> Yes. 03:06 < BleuLlama> yeah, you know that stuff that "free" is supposed to do? it doesn't 03:06 < AKahann> Can someone help me with installing mv player on a 4g color photo ipod 03:06 < courtc> I figure it may be a bug in uclibc too. 03:07 < BleuLlama> that's lowlevel kernel/uclibc stuff. beyond my capability 03:07 < Torahteen> And beyond mine as well 03:07 < BleuLlama> well, i could learn it, but i'm busy 03:07 < Torahteen> So courtc, what did you have in mind when writing your manager? 03:08 < courtc> mainly testing purposes. 03:08 < Torahteen> Was nano-x in server mode? 03:09 < courtc> yep. 03:09 -!- AKahann [n=akahan41@24.115.198.113.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has quit [] 03:09 < Torahteen> Hmm... did you ever get it running? 03:09 < courtc> yep. 03:10 < courtc> I don't think I got applications to connect to it, but later I figured out why. 03:11 < Torahteen> And those apps ran... really slowly? 03:12 < courtc> Well, the shared memory paradigm that nano-x used wasn't very optimal for an ipod. 03:12 < Torahteen> *sigh* 03:12 < Torahteen> So this really isn't gonna work 03:13 < Torahteen> Hmm... what could I do if I had it as a static lib? 03:13 < Torahteen> Just tossing around ideas now 03:17 < courtc> Ok, I suggest you read up on some embedded programming design. The way embedded programming usually works is entirely different from unix's model "do one thing and do it well". Most embedded devices contain single applications that do everything, because that's what operates fastest and with as few seams as possible. 03:17 < courtc> For example, the apple firmware is a single application. 03:19 < courtc> By putting linux on the iPod, we are seperating somewhat from the normal embedded "way". We allow multiple applications to accomplish their individual tasks seperately. It's easier to program this way, but expanding this concept too much causes huge slowdowns. 03:22 < courtc> These slowdowns don't show themselves on the desktop because over the years we have expanded to computers with enhanced performance capabilities. When you try to move too much into an OO method, you will experience a linear degredation in performance. 03:26 < Torahteen> Yeah 03:26 < Torahteen> I just really wanted the ability to make it so that developers can create programs for the iPod more easily 03:27 < Torahteen> Not having to worry about PZs modules, while still having a graphical interface that is common to all IPL programs 03:27 < BleuLlama> i didn't think it was too awful difficult... if you want to make a module for PZ2, you can, if you want a standalone app, use HD or SDL 03:27 < Torahteen> I mean, you could always have a program like iBoy or iDoom that run seperatly of PZ, but if you see what I mean 03:28 < courtc> The idea behind pz2 is essentially that: to make development easier. 03:28 < Torahteen> Hmm... but man, I wish we could make things faster 03:28 < Torahteen> And smoother 03:28 < Torahteen> I hate waiting for it to load all the modules 03:28 < Torahteen> And then, there's not much you can do with PZ once everything loads 03:29 < Torahteen> Meh, I'll sleep on it, figure out what I'm gonna do 03:29 < BleuLlama> i only have about 5-6 modules in my pz2 runtime, and it loads them pretty quickly 03:29 * BleuLlama shrugs 03:29 < Torahteen> Hmm... 03:29 < Torahteen> Hehe, well, like I said, I'll sleep on it 03:30 < BleuLlama> you can always work on the module loading/cacheing and attempt to speed that up 03:30 < BleuLlama> but that's pushing limitations of running linux on an embedded device 03:30 < Torahteen> Yeah 03:30 < Torahteen> Hehe 03:30 < courtc> I don't see what all the fuss is regarding module loading time. 03:30 < Torahteen> I love IPL, really I do 03:30 < Torahteen> Hehe 03:30 < Torahteen> Well, I don't know, PZ just doesn't feel right to me 03:31 < BleuLlama> courtc: agreed. it's not like you do it constantly. it happens once when you start up pz2. it's like booting an OS 03:31 < Torahteen> Meh, maybe I just need to start writing my own modules 03:31 < courtc> If we didn't start the display until all the modules were loaded, there would be no complaint. 03:31 < Torahteen> Sure there would be 03:31 < BleuLlama> i assumed you already have built your own modules, since your claim of it being too difficult to make apps/modules for it. 03:31 < Torahteen> It just wouldn't be about the long loading time for the modules 03:32 < Torahteen> Since we wouldn't know that that is what is taking so long 03:32 < Torahteen> I've tried Bleu lol, but anyway 03:32 < Torahteen> I'm done, time for bed 03:32 < Torahteen> G'night guys 03:32 -!- Torahteen [n=jordan@207-119-159-161.dyn.centurytel.net] has left #ipodlinux [] 03:32 < courtc> You would think it was linux that was taking so long, so you would have no idea. 03:32 < BleuLlama> bufgr 03:32 < BleuLlama> hey, courtc 03:33 < courtc> Hello BleuLlama. 03:33 < BleuLlama> i'm having trouble driving my car, so i thought i'd build my own from scratch 03:33 < BleuLlama> thoughts? 03:34 < courtc> Have fun! 03:34 < courtc> heh 03:34 < courtc> Isn't that really how we all think though? 03:34 < BleuLlama> true 03:34 < BleuLlama> glad he was at least listening to what we had to say 03:34 < courtc> Yep. 03:34 < BleuLlama> rather than the xzilla folk 03:35 < courtc> Man, that project makes 0 sense to me. 03:35 < BleuLlama> and he did sound somewhat clueful, albiet inexperienced 03:35 < BleuLlama> i agree completely 03:46 -!- bholland_ [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has joined #ipodlinux 03:46 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32 -!- Happytime [n=videogam@pool-72-71-213-53.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has joined #ipodlinux 04:32 < Happytime> hey guys 04:33 -!- Happytime [n=videogam@pool-72-71-213-53.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:33 -!- Happytime [n=videogam@pool-72-71-213-53.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has joined #ipodlinux 04:34 < Happytime> any one there? lol 04:38 -!- Happytime [n=videogam@pool-72-71-213-53.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:11 -!- alenax [n=amigax@cm85.sigma24.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["re-start"] 05:12 -!- alenax [n=amigax@cm85.sigma24.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ipodlinux 05:38 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has joined #ipodlinux 05:59 -!- DerangedDingo [n=john@24-113-250-73.wavecable.com] has joined #ipodlinux 06:00 -!- bholland_ [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:07 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@91.108.203.194] has joined #ipodlinux 06:28 -!- cdm [n=cdm@pool-71-116-92-149.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ipodlinux 06:40 -!- davina [n=dave@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ipodlinux 07:13 -!- DerangedDingo [n=john@24-113-250-73.wavecable.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:25 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@91.108.203.194] has quit [] 07:38 -!- cdm [n=cdm@pool-71-116-92-149.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:47 -!- daniel_was_here [n=dbd@48.68.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ipodlinux 07:47 < daniel_was_here> xD 07:47 < daniel_was_here> http://ipodlinux.org/VMPod#Introduction 07:48 < daniel_was_here> the intro is funny but the project looks alright ;p 08:21 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@host81-146-37-249.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has joined #ipodlinux 08:27 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@tux.isd-internet.de] has joined #ipodlinux 08:27 < DerPapst> mornin' 08:28 < DerPapst> courtc: got my pm yesterday? 08:29 < courtc> Yea, thanks. :) 08:29 < DerPapst> ;) 08:33 -!- rager [n=Administ@64.125.162.126] has joined #ipodlinux 08:35 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@host81-146-37-249.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has quit [] 08:48 -!- fxb__ is now known as fxb 08:50 < DerPapst> morning fxb :) 09:14 -!- daniel_was_here [n=dbd@48.68.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@host81-146-37-249.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has joined #ipodlinux 09:51 < fxb> hi DerPapst. 09:54 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@host81-146-37-249.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has quit [] 09:59 -!- perror [n=fleury@mazurek.labri.fr] has joined #ipodlinux 10:01 < rvvs89> BleuLlama: More people be wanting to rewrite things from scratch 10:01 < rvvs89> http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27513 10:02 < rvvs89> I would quote you but, meh, it's your words 10:02 < rvvs89> anyway, laters all 10:07 < jbit> rewriting from scrach gets too much flack :) 10:08 < DerPapst> o m g 10:08 < DerPapst> my brain hurts from just reading tiny pieces of this thread 10:08 < jbit> i'm not even going to bother reading it then :) 10:09 < DerPapst> esp. the last post -.- 10:10 < DerPapst> hopefully none of these guys starts a wiki page about that anytime soon 10:10 < DerPapst> but luckily there is that "delete" button :) 10:11 < jbit> writing from scratch is only useful if you know of what you'll be replacing pretty well 10:13 < DerPapst> they don't even know what they are talking about 10:14 < DerPapst> infact i bet they never heared the words "mutex" and "scheudler"... but they want to write a new kernel.... -.- 10:16 < BeckieRGB> Teach them the art of synchronization... and it will scare them away from ever wanting to write a kernel again. :) 10:17 < DerPapst> heh 10:22 < courtc> bahaha.. 10:22 < courtc> new svn comimg soon btw. 10:23 < courtc> you can look at http://svn.so2.sytes.net/repos/ipl3 for layout preview. 10:27 -!- Aicart [n=aideb@169.Red-83-59-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ipodlinux 10:28 < jbit> BeckieRGB: but but but... writing kernels is easy! :) 10:28 < courtc> haha, writing useful kernels however, is slightly more difficult ;) 10:28 < jbit> even basic kernels are a bitch tbh :) 10:29 * jbit loosk at his kernel 10:29 < courtc> hehe, mine was a pain too... I've never spent so much time staring at 20 lines of code. 10:30 < courtc> or re-written 20 lines of code more times... 10:38 < rvvs89> courtc: nice stuff 10:40 < DerPapst> bah 10:42 < rvvs89> svnbot eh? 10:42 < DerPapst> courtc: YAY 10:42 < DerPapst> :) 10:42 < rvvs89> oh, so that was what was building the nightlies 10:43 < DerPapst> maybe have something for www too 10:43 < DerPapst> like iplbot 10:43 < DerPapst> mediawiki extensions and such 10:43 < courtc> matbe later. 10:44 < DerPapst> does this repo contain the history of the old svn repo? 10:44 < rvvs89> I was about to ask that too heh 10:44 < courtc> all of cvs and all of svn up till 1391 + 1428 10:44 < DerPapst> nice :) 10:44 < rvvs89> huzzah 10:45 < rvvs89> do you mind if I spread the link? 10:45 < rvvs89> or is that a temporary location 10:45 < rvvs89> or something else heh 10:45 < DerPapst> i guess that's only temporary? 10:46 < courtc> :/ It's local, so I'd prefer if you didn't. 10:46 < DerPapst> ah 10:46 < rvvs89> ok 10:46 < courtc> It should be up in a week at most. 10:46 < DerPapst> i wonder if we should host svn on our new server or elswhere 10:47 < DerPapst> (e.g. google or so?) 10:47 < courtc> we'll be using sourceforge. 10:47 < DerPapst> k 10:47 * DerPapst is missing all the cool commit messages 10:48 < courtc> cia should catch them. 10:49 < rvvs89> out of interest, has anyone committed anything to SVN since the we moved to a VPS? 10:49 < rvvs89> subtract the 10:51 < DerPapst> VPS? 10:51 < rvvs89> virtual private server 10:51 < courtc> nope, since svn isn't there anymore ;) 10:51 < rvvs89> good point heh 10:53 < rvvs89> bah, I have laryngitis or something, it's incredibly annoying... 10:54 < rvvs89> I can hardly talk :( 10:56 < DerPapst> you don't have to 10:56 < DerPapst> typing is enuff for me :P 10:57 < rvvs89> :D 11:08 < DerPapst> http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html 11:08 < DerPapst> hahahaha 11:08 < DerPapst> THES TRANSLA2R WIL TAEK WUT U WRIET IN IT AND TURN IT IN2 DA MAN3R A 12-Y3AR-OLD AOLER WUD WRIET IT!!!111!1 OMG LOL 11:11 < rvvs89> heh, amazingly accurate 11:15 -!- rager [n=Administ@64.125.162.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15 < Bi-noix> :) 11:15 < DerPapst> bookmarked.. so that i can translate the posts from the forums now. 11:16 < DerPapst> if anyone could write something similar for grammar? 11:17 < DerPapst> bah.. i guess i don't need that. my grammar is already pretty bad :P 11:25 < courtc> http://tinyurl.com/3a3d5c <- took UPS 3 hours. 11:26 < courtc> I live competely across the country. 11:27 < scorche> courtc: why did you link that? 11:28 < DerPapst> heh 11:31 < courtc> hrm.. thought it was amusing. 11:31 < scorche> ah...i was meaning, do you live around there or something? 11:32 < courtc> No, it took UPS three hours to get my package a few miles. 11:32 < DerPapst> maybe he thought the highway is evil? :P 11:32 < courtc> I looked because I didn't know there was an ontario, ca, us 11:44 -!- Aicart [n=aideb@169.Red-83-59-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52 -!- oslo [n=oslo@alf94-5-82-225-102-119.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ipodlinux 12:07 -!- Appleipodder [i=eXact@dsl-kpogw7-feeffa00-188.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ipodlinux 12:09 < Appleipodder> Any Progress for fixing installer2? 12:15 < DataGhost> heh BeckieRGB I didn't get a lecture on operating systems today because the professor was sick 12:15 < BeckieRGB> sweet 12:15 < DataGhost> the guy telling us the news left us with a puzzle though... imagine 2 systems running 'X := X + 1' 100 times concurrently 12:16 < DataGhost> machine 1: r := X; r := r + 1; X := r; 12:16 < DataGhost> machine 2: s := X; s := s + 1; X := s; 12:16 < DataGhost> what is X afterwards? 12:16 < DataGhost> :P 12:16 < DataGhost> (referring to the 'synch' chat a from a few hours ago :P) 12:16 < BeckieRGB> depends on what X was to begin with :P 12:16 < DataGhost> eh. 0 I guess 12:17 < DataGhost> :) 12:17 < BeckieRGB> then anywhere from 1 to 200 12:17 < DataGhost> 2 to 200 was the correct answer iirc 12:17 < DataGhost> well, not entirely sure anymore 12:17 < DataGhost> anyway, looks like I have a lot of fun forum reading to do then :P 12:18 < BeckieRGB> oh goddess. I just don't bother anymore. :P 12:18 < DataGhost> hehe 12:18 < DataGhost> ah well, I came up with 100-200 12:18 < DataGhost> not considering that machine 1 could do 99 iterations, machine 2 99 and then they both finish the last one 12:18 < DerPapst> heh 12:19 < DataGhost> anyway, I'd like to see zacajs kernel 12:19 < DerPapst> me too 12:19 < DataGhost> if(button_left) goto button_left; 12:19 < DerPapst> i like that example 12:19 < DataGhost> elseif(button_right) goto button_right; 12:19 -!- davina [n=dave@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:20 < DerPapst> hahaha 12:20 < DataGhost> elseif(button_down) goto button_down; 12:20 < DataGhost> etc etc etc 12:20 < DataGhost> else goto begin; 12:20 < DataGhost> :P 12:20 < DerPapst> seems like xzilla is dead... 12:22 < DerPapst> DataGhost: you should ask them the same question (the example above) and if they don't get it after 10 posts tell them that they better not attempt making their own kernel or touching the current kernel at all :P 12:23 < DataGhost> :) 12:23 < DataGhost> will do in a bit 12:23 < DataGhost> gotta read up on something else first 12:27 < rvvs89> Heh, synch is so easy in Java... 12:28 < DerPapst> rvvs89: tell them to write their kernel in java :P 12:28 -!- davina [n=dave@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ipodlinux 12:30 < rvvs89> heh, a triple layer of redundancy 12:31 < rvvs89> actually, the monitor lock and synchronisation looks very difficult to implement given the spec :P 12:31 < courtc> mmm.. if you have a rtos kernel, then X = 100 12:32 < courtc> That's also if you have either a yield in each loop, or multiple processors. 12:34 < courtc> Oh, two *systems*? bahaha 12:34 < courtc> Don't. That's the right answer. 12:40 < DataGhost> my god. why are people so STUPID sometimes? 12:41 < DataGhost> sent an e-mail yesterday "I want to order something but I'm only at home on friday to open the door. I'll be gone after that so I'd like to have it friday then. Is this possible if I order thursday and select 'priority mail'?" 12:41 < DataGhost> answer: "If you order today(tuesday) or tomorrow(wednesday) before 12pm, you'll receive your package on thursday. Probalby you're not home then, but you can pick it up from the post office on friday" 12:42 < DataGhost> why didn't he just say 'yes' 12:44 < courtc> He didn't even answer your question at all. 12:48 < DataGhost> and he said I had to use priority mail too but I forgot to translate that 12:48 < DataGhost> anyway never mind, I'm smart enough to deduce the answer from that :P 13:05 -!- Aicart [n=aideb@169.Red-83-59-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ipodlinux 13:07 < courtc> DerPapst: wrote an add-on for your conorkirk raping. :p 13:08 * DerPapst checks 13:10 -!- herkenrath [n=herkenra@coltrane.informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #ipodlinux 13:12 < DerPapst> heh 13:12 < herkenrath> hi 13:12 < Aicart> huh 13:12 < DerPapst> yay... cpu frequency scaling at the end of this week 13:14 -!- herkenrath is now known as Ghost-itS 13:17 -!- Aicart is now known as AiAway 13:18 -!- AiAway [n=aideb@169.Red-83-59-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@tux.isd-internet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@tux.isd-internet.de] has joined #ipodlinux 14:26 -!- asraniel [n=asraniel@91-220.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ipodlinux 15:07 -!- asraniel [n=asraniel@91-220.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:07 -!- _asraniel [n=asraniel@91-220.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ipodlinux 15:07 -!- JavaMan22 [n=HP_Admin@c-24-61-91-138.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #ipodlinux 15:07 < JavaMan22> is sdl faster than hotdog drawing 15:09 < rvvs89> probably not 15:10 < BeckieRGB> sdl was ported, hotdog was created specifically for the iPod, so I'd say no 15:11 < JavaMan22> what are some apps that have been made with sdl? 15:11 < JavaMan22> in ipod 15:11 < rvvs89> Umm, I think some of the emulators were 15:12 -!- Appleipodder [i=eXact@dsl-kpogw7-feeffa00-188.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 15:13 < DerPapst> ttk is (still) 15:18 -!- Ghost-itS [n=herkenra@coltrane.informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19 < JavaMan22> cc1: error: invalid option `no-cygwin' 15:19 < JavaMan22> whats that about 15:21 < JavaMan22> here is the makefile : http://rafb.net/p/exWnde97.html 15:25 < BleuLlama> fy; ipodmame (which needs an overhaul, re-port perhaps) uses hotdog, but only for the framebuffer interface. 15:26 < DerPapst> JavaMan22: i bet `sdl-config --libs` is for your pc and not for your iPod 15:26 < JavaMan22> :o 15:27 < DerPapst> or have you compiled sdl for your ipdo? 15:27 < JavaMan22> i thought it was already 15:27 < JavaMan22> because i compile jdarcnes fine 15:27 < JavaMan22> and jdarcnes uses sdl 15:27 < JavaMan22> o wait 15:27 < DerPapst> and the LDFLAGS are the same? 15:27 * DerPapst guesses not 15:28 < JavaMan22> LDFLAGS+=-L../ttk/libs/SDL 15:28 < JavaMan22> wat does the L mean 15:29 * DerPapst is not a makefile guru 15:30 < DerPapst> don't know 15:30 < DerPapst> simply try 15:31 < DataGhost> -L DIRECTORY, --library-path DIRECTORY 15:31 < DataGhost> Add DIRECTORY to library search path 15:31 < DataGhost> ld --help 15:31 < DataGhost> LDFLAGS is not a random name 15:31 < JavaMan22> looky it compiled 15:31 < JavaMan22> yay 15:32 < DerPapst> woohoo? 15:32 < JavaMan22> MUAWHHAHAHAA 15:48 -!- The-Compiler [n=florian@164.7.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ipodlinux 15:56 < JavaMan22> omg 15:57 < JavaMan22> it didnt work after all 15:57 < JavaMan22> do i really have to compile sdl by itself doesnt it come with dygwin 15:59 < BleuLlama> why would it come with cygwin 16:00 < JavaMan22> i thought it was universal 16:01 < JavaMan22> is sdl 1.2.8 the latest 16:01 < JavaMan22> i want to work with the latest stuff 16:03 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:04 < BleuLlama> why not go to the sdl website and grab it from there 16:06 -!- Eloelle [n=Eloelle@rrcs-24-39-101-66.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #ipodlinux 16:06 < JavaMan22> but dont i need one thats ported to the ipod? 16:06 < JavaMan22> whats the latest sdl thats ported to ipod is what im asking 16:07 -!- Eloelle [n=Eloelle@rrcs-24-39-101-66.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:07 < JavaMan22> or should i just follow everything in the Building SDL tut in wiki 16:07 < BleuLlama> why aren't you following that to begin with? 16:07 < JavaMan22> i am 16:07 < BleuLlama> then there you go 16:10 -!- JavaMan22 [n=HP_Admin@c-24-61-91-138.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #ipodlinux [] 16:17 < DerPapst> and he's gone... 16:17 < DerPapst> nice work BleuLlama :P 16:18 -!- perror [n=fleury@mazurek.labri.fr] has quit ["Quitting"] 16:22 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@tux.isd-internet.de] has quit ["work->home... finally"] 17:37 -!- amiconn_ [n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn] has joined #ipodlinux 17:37 -!- amiconn [n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:37 -!- amiconn_ is now known as amiconn 17:43 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ipodlinux 17:44 -!- HellDragon [n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:45 < DerPapst> rvvs89: the pp502X chips can run at 100MHz so the kernel doesn't overclock the cpu. 17:45 < DerPapst> and afaik the apple firmware runs it with up to 90MHz 17:47 < DerPapst> but the apple firmware does frequency scalining and it can switch off component that aren't needed. 17:51 < DerPapst> amiconn just told be that pp5020 runs (according to the specs) with 80MHz max and PP5002 up to 90MHz (we run it with 66MHz currently) 17:58 < jbit> which is plenty fast :) 18:01 < BleuLlama> plenty fast for what? (curious) 18:04 < jbit> playing music of course :) 18:05 -!- cdm [n=cdm@pool-71-116-92-149.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ipodlinux 18:05 < BleuLlama> i remember having a Pentium 66 that just /barely/ was able to play a 128k mp3 18:05 < jbit> ipod is dualcore :) 18:06 < BleuLlama> yes, but mpd for example, does not use the second core to aid with mp3 decoding. it also has no floating point unit, so FP is much slower than on a Pentium 18:06 < jbit> and i think mp3 decoding is much easier on risc archs (though don't quote me on this :) 18:06 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06 < jbit> fp isn't required for mp3 18:07 < jbit> or many audio codecs come to think of it 18:07 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ipodlinux 18:20 -!- Aicart [n=aideb@140.Red-88-18-200.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ipodlinux 18:42 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has joined #ipodlinux 18:58 < BleuLlama> i love that i'm using a $300 device that I had to go out of my way to configure, in order to play music files that i can easily play on a $40 ancient machine. 18:58 < BleuLlama> i should add another "face" to mikmodule, that looks like an amiga with protracker running on its screen 18:58 < BleuLlama> that'd be cute 19:14 < DataGhost> BleuLlama I'd rather have slow than erroneous FP :P 19:14 < BeckieRGB> ipl's is both slow and erroneous 19:15 < DataGhost> Q: How many Pentium designers does it take to screw in a light bulb? 19:15 < DataGhost> A: 1.99995827903, but that's close enough for nontechnical people. 19:19 < BeckieRGB> (I had to write my own string-to-float and float-to-string routines for MultiConvert because snprintf and sscanf were just not doing it; I could only get integers and NaN's out of those things) 19:21 < cdm> Bleu: You could always just use the firmware that it came with. I hear that it plays back MP3s pretty well. 19:22 < DerPapst> heh 19:26 -!- The-Compiler [n=florian@164.7.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:26 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:27 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ipodlinux 19:35 < BleuLlama> cdm: that's exactly what I do 19:35 < BleuLlama> i only use ipl for music playback of .mod files 19:35 < BleuLlama> i don't use mpd 19:37 < cdm> :) you should just write a game that can play back .mod files. :) 19:39 < DerPapst> but that will still require iPL or am i mistaken? :P 19:39 < BleuLlama> heh 19:39 < BleuLlama> cdm: if i had a SDK for ipod games, i would 19:39 < BleuLlama> :) 19:45 < DataGhost> http://ooxmlisdefectivebydesign.blogspot.com/ 19:45 < DataGhost> heh @ part six 19:45 < DataGhost> Windows XP tells me that I'm in Western Europe Summer Time 19:45 < DerPapst> O M G... i thought we passed that point already :-/ "Ok, we need a new kernel. Does anyone agree?" http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=228338#228338 19:45 < DataGhost> which is in the UK, not around here. It's also GMT+1 while I'm clearly in GMT+2 and my clock reflects that 19:46 < DataGhost> DerPapst idea bank? 19:47 < BleuLlama> wow. 19:47 < DerPapst> if you want a good laugh read that eintire thread.but don 19:48 < DerPapst> 't lock it. i bet it gets even funnier. 19:48 < DataGhost> LOL proposing zaczilla as podzilla3? :D 19:48 < BleuLlama> yeah., i don't think that gets my vote 19:49 < DerPapst> heh 19:49 < BleuLlama> i'm not locking or deleting it. promise 19:49 < DataGhost> heh. you didn't even actively remember the last one 19:49 < DataGhost> 'might have, not sure' 19:49 < BleuLlama> heh. no i checked. it wasn't me 19:50 < DataGhost> hm ok :P 19:50 < DataGhost> "also I run iBoy from pz0 so it would be cool if it worked as a pz0 plugin" 19:50 < DataGhost> heh he did his homework :) 19:51 < BleuLlama> well, if they want to port another OS, or write an OS kernel, then more power to them, but based on their discussions, i don;t think it's gonna happen 19:51 < DerPapst> infact i haven't even read the entire thing myself ^^ 19:51 < BleuLlama> "Ithink we should build the music player in, not use mpd, definently speed everything up, and use hotdog, a different ui i total, maybe get a differnent way to load modules, however, modules use ttk, which is a problem. if were using hotdog" 19:52 < DerPapst> anyone wanna ba a hero to them? show them ccOS and clain you write it :P 19:52 < DataGhost> yeah built-in is loads faster! EVERYONE KNOWS 19:52 < BleuLlama> i bet that if we had said it was an obligatory fsck on startup, no one would complain about boot times 19:52 < DerPapst> *claim you wrote 19:53 < DataGhost> lol someone proposed antialiasing :D 19:53 < DerPapst> omg 19:53 < DataGhost> they really do think every computer is some sort of unlimited-power magic box 19:53 < BleuLlama> DataGhost: where is this that you're reading? 19:53 < DerPapst> and some nice pixel shaders perhaps? 19:53 < DataGhost> bluesky 19:53 < DataGhost> :P 19:53 < DataGhost> eh no 19:53 < DataGhost> I closed that (tab) 19:53 < DataGhost> igens topic 19:54 < BleuLlama> aha 19:55 < DerPapst> are there any online awards for e.g. stoopidest userbase? 19:55 < DataGhost> http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=228313#228313 useful comment for anyone to read 19:55 < BleuLlama> do we have a code profiler that can run on the ipod? i'd be really interested to see what is using all of the processor time in normal usage 19:55 < DataGhost> will be deleted in about 1 minute 19:55 < DataGhost> so hurry! 19:55 < DerPapst> i think we deserved one 19:55 -!- RedDak [n=dak@87.18.90.36] has joined #ipodlinux 19:56 < DataGhost> oops, it's gone! oooooooooh! 19:57 < BleuLlama> "oops" 19:58 < DerPapst> "Can't you ask this stuff in IRC? " is conorkirk really serious about that? 19:58 < DerPapst> if so dataghost could you please temp-ban him? ;) 19:59 < DataGhost> url or didn't I read that topic yet? 19:59 < DataGhost> which topic 19:59 < DerPapst> the topic with the post you just deleted 19:59 < DerPapst> conordudes first post in that thread 20:00 -!- mode/#ipodlinux [+o BleuLlama ] by ChanServ 20:00 < DataGhost> heh 20:00 * DerPapst hides 20:00 < BleuLlama> which one is conkirk? 20:00 < DataGhost> hm DerPapst do you have the TOPIC url? :P 20:00 < BleuLlama> DerPapst: heh 20:01 < DerPapst> heh... i doubt he is here :P 20:01 < DerPapst> http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=226114#226114 20:01 < DataGhost> oh wait the extra proccessor thing eh? including typo 20:01 < DerPapst> 1A white'n nerdy flame... 20:01 < DerPapst> well. 20:01 < BleuLlama> DerPapst: no; i meant which of the bans on the channel are him? 20:01 < DerPapst> not really 20:01 < BleuLlama> so i can unban 20:01 < DataGhost> blah never mind that, it's 10 days old already. next time I'll pay more attention :) 20:02 < DataGhost> before we see WnN on IRC he'll probably open a bunch of topics and a complete wiki project on how to get on IRC 20:02 < DerPapst> BleuLlama: afaik none? 20:02 < DerPapst> ahahahaha 20:02 * DerPapst guesses he confused BleuLlama a bit 20:03 < BleuLlama> that you did, my friend 20:03 < BleuLlama> that you did 20:04 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has quit ["Peace Out"] 20:05 < DerPapst> oh noez... xzilla is still not dead -.- 20:10 < BleuLlama> there are a lot of idlers in here whom i have *never* seen talk 20:12 < BleuLlama> does this zip http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12181 have the non-shareware DOOM wads in it? 20:16 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has joined #ipodlinux 20:18 < DataGhost> nope I can't see any non-shareware DOOM wads in there 20:18 < DataGhost> I can't see anything 20:19 < DerPapst> hah 20:19 < DataGhost> it doesn't even work on IE however the interface looks like it 20:19 < DerPapst> same here 20:19 < DerPapst> firefox 20:19 < BleuLlama> hmm? 20:19 < DataGhost> it's empty 20:19 < DataGhost> and the second link is dead 20:19 < BleuLlama> oh. good. 20:19 < DataGhost> :) 20:20 -!- oslo [n=oslo@alf94-5-82-225-102-119.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [No route to host] 20:20 < DerPapst> the interface looks neat though 20:23 < DataGhost> I still prefer the apache default 20:24 < DerPapst> heh.. too much "web 20.0"? 20:24 < DerPapst> err *2.0 20:25 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ipodlinux 20:27 < DataGhost> well it just looks 'fancy' (read: stupid... imo) without any real advantage 20:27 < DataGhost> it's not like you can use drag/drop or whatever and you're just eating space and showing less potentially relevant information 20:27 < DerPapst> heh 20:27 < DataGhost> well maybe you can drag/drop with IE and it's flawed security mode 20:27 < DataGhost> l 21:10 -!- _asraniel [n=asraniel@91-220.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@91.108.203.246] has joined #ipodlinux 21:12 -!- RedDak [n=dak@87.18.90.36] has quit ["I'm quitting... Bye all"] 21:15 -!- BeckieRGB [n=beckie@adsl-76-202-79-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:19 -!- davina [n=dave@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31 -!- JavaMan22 [n=HP_Admin@c-24-61-91-138.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #ipodlinux 21:31 < JavaMan22> i just did my first sdl program 21:31 < JavaMan22> with the tut and it shows 4 colors :o 21:32 < JavaMan22> but when i quit sdl the screen doesnt go back to the console how do i make it go back to the orange text? 21:32 -!- Aicart [n=aideb@140.Red-88-18-200.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["http://cronistes.cat | http://myspace.com/cronistes"] 21:35 < courtc> The text is really white. 21:35 < JavaMan22> ok how do i get it to white text... 21:37 < courtc> Did you reset KDSETMODE? 21:37 < JavaMan22> http://rafb.net/p/ZpOg0n48.html 21:57 * DerPapst goes off for his daily beauty sleep 21:57 < DerPapst> Good night everyone :) 21:57 -!- DerPapst [n=DerPapst@pD9EB329E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!"] 22:05 -!- sailjy [n=phil@ool-44c2cd58.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ipodlinux 22:07 -!- sailjy [n=phil@ool-44c2cd58.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:11 -!- Chronon [i=Chronon@d23-104.uoregon.edu] has joined #ipodlinux 22:12 -!- rager [n=Administ@64.125.162.126] has joined #ipodlinux 22:23 -!- kick52 [n=Tim@91.108.203.246] has quit [] 22:31 < JavaMan22> how do you draw text with sdl 22:39 < JavaMan22> i cant find anything with sdl everything is made with ttk and hotdog :( :( :( 22:41 < courtc> That's because you'll need to implement your own text drawing routines on top of SDL. 22:43 < JavaMan22> i compile and it says it couldnt find TTF_Font 22:43 < JavaMan22> isnt that in SDL?? 22:44 < JavaMan22> jzilla.c:86: error: `TTF_Font' undeclared (first use in this function) 22:46 < courtc> Nope. 22:48 < JavaMan22> is that what people in ipl use to draw text? 22:48 < courtc> Nope. 22:48 < JavaMan22> then what do people use 22:48 < JavaMan22> if theres an app with src in particluar please tell me 22:49 < courtc> Custom text drawing routines, such as the ones implemented in ttk or hotdog. 22:56 -!- oslo [n=oslo@alf94-5-82-225-102-119.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ipodlinux 23:05 -!- HellDragon [n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon] has joined #ipodlinux 23:16 -!- bholland [n=bholland@64.114.6.245] has quit ["Peace Out"] --- Log closed Wed Aug 29 00:00:00 2007