--- Log opened Mon Feb 28 00:00:02 2005
00:00 < TailGrabb> is the 5002 user guide publicly available?
00:00 < nilss> afaik we don't have that user guide
00:01 < nilss> maybe there's some kind of mmu that handles the caching because both cores have their own cache...
00:03 < racter> what you guys on dial up or something?
00:03 < nilss> adsl
00:03 < TailGrabb> likewise
00:07 -!- joecool is now known as joecool|away
00:07 -!- hexarith [~hexarith@ppp-82-135-65-79.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Client exiting"]
00:07 -!- joecool|away is now known as joecool|food
00:10 < TailGrabb> i dont have openoffice installed, so i cant view it
00:11 < TailGrabb> how does it look nilss
00:11 < nilss> i don't have ooffice on my laptop either. i'll try to read it with strings ;)
00:11 < TailGrabb> heh
00:11 < racter> you two are poverty cases!
00:11 < TailGrabb> it already crashed kword and abiword :-(
00:12 < nilss> i have ooffice on my workstation but i don't want to boot it now ;)
00:12 < TailGrabb> my poor transmeta is getting crushed!
00:14 -!- xcheddargoldfish [~xcheddarg@pcp05316387pcs.norstn01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ipodlinux
00:15  * jedix checks stocks
00:17 < racter> there, thats in html and perfect for software lacking people
00:19 < nilss> i just installed openoffice ;)
00:19 < racter> some of those docs are feature heavy, I would be shocked if oo renders them all right
00:20 < coob> i can do an msword->pdf of anythign that wont render in oofice if you want
00:20 < Gent> anyone know how many lines of code the current podzilla is?
00:20 < nilss> Gent: cat **/*|wc -l ;)
00:21 < coob> no but most of them are in pong.c
00:21 < courtc> heh
00:21 < racter> heh
00:21 < courtc> I've done some trimming
00:21 < nilss> lol TOC.htm uses javascript ;)
00:21 < coob> holy calamity screamin instanity
00:22 < nilss> i tried to open it in w3m ;)
00:23 < racter> damn u folks are hard to please
00:23 < courtc> ~7500 for everything
00:23 < nilss> well at least w3m shows the pictures ;)
00:24 < TailGrabb> so, tango4 is the api that the apple firmware uses?
00:24 -!- Grunt [~grunt@S0106000c413a1c49.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ipodlinux
00:24 < racter> Yar, it goes RTXC -> Tango -> Pixo -> Apples App
00:25 < Gent> errr
00:25 < Gent> I got a lot more than that
00:25 < nilss> rtxc? i read that in some firmware dumps... :)
00:25 < nilss> i only found it it's a realtime os for embedded devices
00:25 < racter> rtxc, its a leading brand of real time os
00:25 < TailGrabb> who's os? portalplayer?
00:25 < racter> are you serious? you dont have rtxc docs?
00:26 < Gent> I got 15143 -- with games and all
00:26 < racter> rtxc is used it like 80 percent of the real time devices on earth
00:26 < TailGrabb> hell man, the only realtime i've done is vxworks
00:26 < racter> k, nilss has rtxc docs
00:27 < nilss> i played around with jackd for realtime audio yesterday ;) got a latency of 2,7ms on x86 :)
00:27 < courtc> 27911
00:27 < xcheddargoldfish> i miss my mac =[
00:27 < Gent> with microwindows?
00:27 < xcheddargoldfish> can anyone compile it for me ?
00:27 < courtc> no
00:27 < jedix> I hear jack is the best for latency with x86
00:27 < Gent> How'd you get that number?
00:28 -!- joecool|food is now known as joecool
00:28 < courtc> made it up most likely
00:28 < Gent> I see
00:28 < jedix> hehe
00:28 < Gent> so 15143
00:28 < jedix> that's totally wrong
00:28 < Gent> jedix, the 15,143?
00:28 < jedix> more like 25324
00:28 < courtc> 27956
00:28 < jedix> yeah
00:29 < Gent> jedix, I'm not joking around
00:29 < courtc> cat `find ./` |wc -l
00:29 < Gent> courtc, I mean just code, not makefiles and all that
00:29 < racter> http://www.nohau.co.uk/products/rtxc/p_rtxc32.htm
00:30 < jedix> Gent, I was joking
00:30 < jessem> Getting an error when doing make in Podzilla: itunes_db.c:22: itunesdb.h: No such file or directory
00:30 < TailGrabb> yea i'm lookin at it
00:30 -!- hexarith [~hexarith@ppp-82-135-65-79.mnet-online.de] has joined #iPodLinux
00:31 -!- Hostile [~lanteau@cblmdm69-45-208-47.buckeye-express.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:34 < Gent> seems like 10932 is the most accurate
00:34 < courtc> .. no
00:35 < Gent> yes
00:35 < coob> why're you counting lines
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00:35 < coob> lines mean nothing.
00:35 < Gent> coob, lines mean memory
00:35 < coob> lines mean nothing.
00:36 < Gent> lines mean memory
00:36 < nilss> \n is just one byte ;)
00:36 < courtc> more like ~25000 but lines don't mean memory
00:37 < Gent> nilss, the tool I'm using doesn't just go by \n
00:37 < Gent> but yes, lines mean memory
00:37 < TailGrabb> did you see this spdif in?
00:37 < nilss> what are you doing with the code? ;)
00:37 < TailGrabb> i wonder if you can get to that from the dock connector
00:37 < Gent> nilss, I'm not doing anything with the old Podzilla code
00:37 < Gent> I'm just comparing
00:38 < nilss> i think you should compare the binary size
00:38 < courtc> agreed
00:38 < Gent> how big is the current podzilla
00:38 < Gent> can someone grab that real quick... this isn't compiled from ARM yet either though...
00:39 < Gent> I wasn't trying to get exactness... I was trying to get a general idea
00:39 < coob> -rwxr-xr-x  1 owl  owl  506344 28 Feb 00:39 podzilla
00:39 < coob> has a whole bunch of extra crap tho
00:39 < coob> tuxchess, matrix, chopper, metronome
00:40 < coob> normal ones on arm are like, 400k?
00:40 < Gent> Well I'm trying to get an idea of fully loaded
00:40 < coob> ok well mine's probably as bloated as it gets.
00:40 < Gent> ok
00:41 < Gent> I'm trying to keep basic functionality under 10KB
00:41 < Gent> like everything but games
00:41 < coob> staticly compiled with microwindows?
00:41 < coob> ok.
00:42 < Gent> it is right now... but like I said, this isn't arm
00:42 < coob> wtf does that have to do with it
00:42 < courtc> $ wc -c podzilla 
00:42 < courtc> 956593 podzilla
00:42 < courtc> from cvs
00:42 < Gent> different compilers output different code
00:42 < courtc> x86
00:42 < coob> no shit sherlock.
00:43 < courtc> gcc version 3.4.3
00:43 < TailGrabb> your name is sherlock?
00:43 < Gent> well I have no clue on the actual binary size
00:43 < Gent> cause this is compiled x86 right now
00:43 < Gent> so the arm binary might be larger
00:43 < fakker> my name is sherlock...
00:43 < Gent> or smaller
00:43 < Gent> I don't know
00:43 < courtc> smaller
00:43  * fakker has it on highlight
00:43 < coob> smaller
00:43 < fakker> so - what you want?
00:43 < joecool> courtc: you should have more fun and compile it with gcc-4
00:44 < courtc> joecool- yea, that would make me cool wouldnt it ?
00:44 < joecool> courtc: nah, that would just break shit.. which would suck for you
00:44 < joecool> :)
00:45 < courtc> 519628 arm  gcc version 2.95.3 2001031
00:46 -!- flubbers [flubbers@83.38.21.0] has joined #ipodlinux
00:46 < flubbers> hola
00:46 < flubbers> alguien habla espaņol?
00:47 < coob> non
00:47 < flubbers> ok
00:47 < joecool> flubbers: yo quiero taco bell
00:47 -!- Vanquisher [~Van@vanquisher.user] has joined #ipodlinux
00:51 < Gent> hehe, vanquisher
00:51 < Vanquisher> :)
00:51 < joecool> hm?
00:51 -!- bLeW_ [~blew@stjhnf01bb8-142162175159.nl.aliant.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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01:00 < dup> hi
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01:00 < TailGrabb> nilss, you ever get that doc open
01:01 < nilss> yea
01:01 < nilss> it's 21mb
01:01 < nilss> 64mb decompressed
01:01 < TailGrabb> wait...what are you talking about? the .doc?  mine's only 4mb
01:01 < nilss> DOCS.zip
01:02 < TailGrabb> oh, i didnt get that
01:02 < nilss> i asked him to resume the transfer ;)
01:02 < TailGrabb> ah
01:02 < TailGrabb> heh
01:02 < TailGrabb> i dont remember him even trying to send
01:02 < nilss> it's quite much to read...
01:02 < TailGrabb> can you send it to me
01:02 < TailGrabb> yea, probably packed though, which is good
01:02 < TailGrabb> will it be samller if you rar it
01:03 < nilss> i guess we'll have to spend at least a week reading through that docs ;)
01:03 < TailGrabb> and bzip2
01:03 < nilss> tried bz2, still 21mb
01:03 < TailGrabb> damn
01:03 < TailGrabb> well, do you mind sending
01:03 < TailGrabb> i'd like to look it over
01:03 < nilss> i only have 16kb/s upload :/
01:03 < TailGrabb> ew, ugly
01:04 < TailGrabb> where do you think he gets all this stuff
01:04 < nilss> don't know ;)
01:05 < TailGrabb> heh
01:05 < nilss> "PortalPlayer, Inc. CONFIDENTIAL and TRADE SECRETE Information" that on every page ;)
01:05 < nilss> that's*
01:05 < TailGrabb> is docs.zip the same as the .doc that he sent
01:06 < nilss> the .docs are in docs.zip
01:06 < TailGrabb> i see
01:06 < TailGrabb> i only got the one :-(
01:08 < coob> haha
01:08 < coob> i love this annebab character
01:08 < coob> 'ogg makes me oragsm, mp3 makes me cry'
01:08 < nilss> lol
01:09 -!- poolio [~poolio@pcp278593pcs.owngsm01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ipodlinux
01:09 < hexarith> That's something I never understant: The companies want to sell their stuff. But when doing a new electronics project I always first read all information about the components I might use. If I cannot get the full doc of a component I don't use it. And that's not only private, but also when doing commercial designs.
01:10 < coob> what do you do for a living?
01:10 < hexarith> So why it's oftenly "confidental", what's inside the HW?
01:11 < hexarith> Well, I'm a physics student, but now and then I'm working on contract for spin offs of the university.
01:11 < coob> k
01:12 < hexarith> I actually got it to a own both on CeBIT
01:12 < hexarith> booth
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01:14 < voteforpedro> hello
01:14 < voteforpedro> i have a quick question
01:14 < voteforpedro> how do i create a new backup of my ipod?
01:14 < coob> which part
01:15 < hexarith> You want to backup the partitions?
01:15 < coob> the firmware or the data
01:15 < voteforpedro> no
01:15 < voteforpedro> like the backup it creates
01:15 < voteforpedro> when u first install
01:15 < voteforpedro> because a lot has changed since then
01:15 < coob> dd if=/dev/sda1 of=backup.bin
01:15 < voteforpedro> which means?
01:16 < voteforpedro> what does dd mean?
01:16 < coob> oh god are you on windows?
01:16 < hexarith> this copies the whole first partition of the iPod harddisk into the file backup.bin
01:16 < coob> *pass*
01:16 < voteforpedro> ic
01:17 < voteforpedro> yes im on windows
01:17 < voteforpedro> but i do have
01:17 < voteforpedro> about 9 os's on my comp 
01:17 < voteforpedro> right now
01:17 < joecool> coob: i'm gonna ask a bit of a noob question.. but if i use dd on a 40gig partition.. will the image come out as 40gb, or will it just be the size of used space?
01:17 < voteforpedro> i have no firewire tho
01:17 < hexarith> dd is a versatile stream copy tool with a lot of parameters you can tweak
01:17 < coob> it'll be the whole partition
01:18 < voteforpedro> but my computer cant telnet to my ipod
01:18 < voteforpedro> so i cant dd
01:18 < joecool> coob: hmm.. damn, i'm trying to think of howto get windoze offa my 7200rpm drive, and gentoo onto it
01:18 < hexarith> But you can still pipe it through gzip which will compress away the unused space
01:18 < joecool> hexarith: oh really? that might work.. 
01:19 < voteforpedro> i have a question
01:19 < voteforpedro> when the installer first makes the backup
01:19 < voteforpedro> how does it do so?
01:19 < voteforpedro> is it possible to run the installer again
01:19 < hexarith> joecool: Yes, but when restoring the partition it will again expand to 40GB, so this only saves filespace
01:19 < coob> ask whoever made the installer
01:19 < voteforpedro> just for the purpose of making a backup
01:20 < joecool> hexarith: because i wanna more windoze on a 40gig partition to a 30gig drive... can it be done?
01:20 < coob> wow
01:20 < coob> didn't realise the ipod was backwards compatible with usb 1.1
01:20 < joecool> hexarith: i dunno how it would take to tarring it up (winblows is like that)
01:21 < coob> just reinstall windows on the diska nd all your apps
01:22 < hexarith> Well, you could mount the Windoze parition, make a tar archive of it. Then you could delete the old partition, make new ones with the new size and format them VFAT. Then restore the tar archive and use the ntfsconvert tool to make ntfs of the vfat paritions
01:23 < joecool> hexarith: or i could work on getting captive to work to bypass the whole conversion process
01:23 < hexarith> well, yes, but you've still to NTFS format the partition.
01:23 < joecool> hexarith: can't the winblows cd do that?
01:23 < poolio> Has anyone tried using the iPod as a boot device for non-mac os x operating systems?
01:23 < hexarith> But AFAIK there's a DOS tool for that.
01:24 < coob> poolio: not much non-openfirmware bios type things support fw stuff
01:24 < coob> dunno about the usb stuff tho
01:24 < hexarith> But I'm not sure how this interacts with the 2GB limit.
01:25 < poolio> coob: Ah, never was a fan of open-firmware.
01:25 < hexarith> Well, yes the Windoze CD can do the format for you.
01:25 < coob> open firmware is great
01:25 < coob> how many other bioses can you play games in
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01:36 -!- njsges [~njsges@adsl-210-141-75.sdf.bellsouth.net] has joined #ipodlinux
01:36 < njsges> evening
01:36 < njsges> anyone know if its still possible to purchase a 3G ipod?
01:37 < Vanquisher> njsges, ebay?
01:38 -!- GruntWillBBL is now known as Grunt
01:38 < njsges> ill give them a try, although i'm a bit leary of ebay
01:38 < Gent> anyone know the resolutions for the different ipods?
01:41 -!- chungy [1000@c-24-17-43-226.client.comcast.net] has joined #iPodLinux
01:41 < coob> gent
01:41 < coob> check the wiki's upload log
01:42 < coob> or the wiki recent activity
01:42 < courtc> http://www.so2.sys-techs.com/ipod/genscreen.png
01:43 < Gent> thanks courtc
01:43 < courtc> or the original file ;)
01:45 < voteforpedro> i have a question
01:46 < voteforpedro> <k>
01:46 < voteforpedro> umm
01:46 < mrdan> ...
01:46 < voteforpedro> if i delete the
01:46 < voteforpedro> ipodlinux folder off of my ipod
01:46 < voteforpedro> will it just be gone then?
01:46 < voteforpedro> because im returning my ipod tommorow
01:47 < mrdan> you just reflash with the firmware uipdate utility
01:47 < mrdan> to cleanse your ipo
01:47 < coob> boot into disk mode, click restore in the firmware
01:47 < mrdan> d
01:47 < voteforpedro> well how do i make a backup of the db tho?
01:47 < mrdan> ?
01:47 < voteforpedro> cuz i have taken music form all over
01:47 < voteforpedro> and i dont want to lose it
01:47 < voteforpedro> the itunesdb
01:47 < voteforpedro> all of my music
01:47 < mrdan> well you have to copy your files back to your computer
01:48 < voteforpedro> but my songs dont show up
01:48 < mrdan> are you in the apple firmware?
01:48 < voteforpedro> when i look in the directory
01:48 < mrdan> no
01:48 < voteforpedro> yes
01:48 < mrdan> boot into apple firmware
01:48 < mrdan> connect
01:48 < mrdan> and use copypod or ipod agent
01:48 < voteforpedro> i did
01:48 < mrdan> it will pull them off nice and neat
01:48 < voteforpedro> k
01:49 < voteforpedro> k cool
01:49 < mrdan> or you can go to the hidden folder where they all are and pull them off and have itunes re-sort them from their ipoded state
01:49 < voteforpedro> k
01:49 < voteforpedro> ill use agent
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01:51 < voteforpedro> does anyone have experiance with exchanging ipods
01:51 < voteforpedro> at the apple store
01:51 < voteforpedro> because mines acting weird
01:51 < mrdan> as long as there's no cracked plastic
01:51 < voteforpedro> sweet
01:51 < mrdan> and it's still under warranty
01:51 < voteforpedro> then im good
01:51 < mrdan> they'll take it
01:51 < voteforpedro> do u know
01:52 < voteforpedro> if they would let me pay 50 bucks extra and get a new photo?
01:52 < voteforpedro> because thats what i really want
01:52 < mrdan> no clue
01:52 < mrdan> i would think not
01:52 < voteforpedro> dame
01:52 < voteforpedro> damn*
01:52 < mrdan> but it's certainly possible
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01:52 < voteforpedro> i should have bought my pod at best buy
01:52 < mrdan> haha yeah
01:52 < voteforpedro> they let u do it at best buy
01:52 < mrdan> if you get their warranty
01:53 < mrdan> and they don't sell it anymore
01:53 -!- chungy [1000@c-24-17-43-226.client.comcast.net] has quit ["k"]
01:53 < jessem> Should I be getting Make errors complaining about itunesdb.h?
01:53 < jessem> Sorry I asked this before...
01:54 < jessem> Don't know if there was a response.
01:54 < coob> no libitunedb in the irght place
01:54 < voteforpedro> my guess is no
01:55 < jessem> Ill double check libitunedb, thanks for the pointer.
01:56 -!- hexarith [~hexarith@ppp-82-135-65-79.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Client exiting"]
01:56 < voteforpedro> has anyone used google get b4?
01:56 < mrdan> yeah
01:57 < voteforpedro> is it ne good?
01:57 < nilss> n8
01:57 < courtc> later nilss 
01:57 < jessem> Well, I skiped the libitunedb section becuase it was under Windows/Cygwin only"
01:57 < jessem> Running OS X
01:59 -!- TailGrabb [~tailgrabb@c-24-8-179-105.client.comcast.net] has quit []
01:59 < coob> uh
02:00 < coob> only that para is about windows/cygwin only
02:00 < voteforpedro> you know what would be an awesome device to run linux on?
02:00 < voteforpedro> a psp
02:00 < jessem> Right... I see that now, it's a little misleading... 
02:03 < voteforpedro> does anyone agree with my psp dream?
02:04 < joecool> i do.. but there needs to be a UMD burner
02:04 < voteforpedro> yea
02:04 < joecool> i mentioned that earlier today somewhere.. sony released the specs.. so its only a matter of time before we see UMD-RW's
02:04 < joecool> i think probably 6-7 months after release if it picks up
02:04 < voteforpedro> well
02:05 < voteforpedro> how do savegames work
02:05 < voteforpedro> on psp's?
02:05 < mrdan> mem stick
02:05 < joecool> memory stick.. i suppose you could run it offa the memory stick
02:05 < mrdan> but there's no way you can boot from the mem stick
02:05 < voteforpedro> thats true
02:05 < coob> there's flash inside.
02:05 < joecool> the UMD would be ideal for read only.. the mem stick would be used for storage
02:05 < coob> boot from that, load the rest from mem stick
02:05 < voteforpedro> well
02:06  * coob bed
02:06 < voteforpedro> whats the purpose of the wifi on the psp?
02:06 < voteforpedro> can i access the internet on it?
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02:06 < mrdan> mp gaming
02:06 < mrdan> night coob
02:06 < joecool> yeah.. the firmware loaders can load the firmware from mem stick to flash
02:06 < joecool> sooooo
02:06 < joecool> its quite possible to work with that a bit..
02:06 < voteforpedro> see
02:07 < voteforpedro> if u got linux running on it
02:07 < voteforpedro> with a bundled web browser
02:07 < voteforpedro> like firefox or sumthin
02:07 < voteforpedro> that would be soo cool
02:07 < voteforpedro> and get the wifi working
02:07 < voteforpedro> im mean
02:07 < voteforpedro> outside of the mp gaming
02:07 < courtc> ... IPODlinux
02:08 < mrdan> way to kill the conversation
02:08 < voteforpedro> does that mean no more psp speak?
02:08 < voteforpedro> yea
02:09 -!- bh445 [1003@c-67-168-158-106.client.comcast.net] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
02:09 < voteforpedro> im orgasming thinking about the possibilites
02:09 < voteforpedro> of this psp thing
02:09 < voteforpedro> haha
02:09 < mrdan> how much is the psp?
02:10 < joecool> ~$250
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02:10 < mrdan> what kind of battery life
02:10 < mrdan> ?
02:10 < normalperson> grr.. I'm tempted to not work on or test mpd because I have 2 weeks of uptime on it
02:10 < normalperson> of course, I have machines with months of uptime...
02:10 < joecool> mrdan: it varies on what you do with it, only a few hours playing a dvd, but well over 5 for most games
02:11 < mrdan> well using wifi is very power consuming
02:11 < joecool> and you can power it off, swap the battery, and pick up where you left off
02:11 < normalperson> but i have tremor compiled into mpd now
02:11 < courtc> hows it work? does it at all?
02:13 < voteforpedro> ...
02:13 < normalperson> courtc: tremor works fine on my desktop machine
02:14 < courtc> have you tested it on the ipod yet?
02:14 < voteforpedro> i wonder how hard it will be to get pirated software for the psp
02:14 < normalperson> courtc: no, I don't wanna ruin my uptime :p
02:14 < mrdan> haha
02:14 < mrdan> do it!
02:15 < courtc> ... #psplinux
02:15 < courtc> normalperson- thats a pretty silly reason.. :/
02:16 < normalperson> courtc: I'm also lazy, just got another computer yesterday, and all
02:16 < voteforpedro> psplinux is empty
02:16 < mrdan> exactly
02:16 < joecool> lol
02:17 < courtc> normalperson- haha.. now lazy, thats the ultimate excuse..
02:17 < voteforpedro> whoa
02:17 < voteforpedro> the website
02:17 < voteforpedro> says that psplinux is based off of dsl
02:17 < voteforpedro> or going to be
02:17 < voteforpedro> pretty pimp
02:17 < mrdan> enough pedro
02:17 < voteforpedro> k
02:18 < normalperson> I love mpd, it's so stable
02:18 < mrdan> test it
02:18 < normalperson> I also need to work on mpc later
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02:20 -!- bh445 [1003@c-67-168-158-106.client.comcast.net] has joined #ipodlinux
02:20 < courtc> I also just recently got all the pieces of one of my computers back. did a little network 'spring cleaning', new workspace etc. so now i have to setup another ipodlinux dev environment..
02:21 < voteforpedro> ok i have an ipod related question. Has anyone (i know its very similair to the 4g) tried getting ipodlinux working on a photo?
02:22 < voteforpedro> or is there no photo to test it on?
02:22 < courtc> voteforpedro- apparently leachbj has got podzilla etc running on his photo.
02:22 < voteforpedro> is it in b&w?
02:22 < courtc> the only big difference is the lcd driver
02:23 < courtc> well podzilla is made to be 2bit.. so it would be, yes
02:23 < courtc> he says the image viewer works well though
02:23 < voteforpedro> is the proccessor any faster in the photo?
02:23 < courtc> no
02:23 < voteforpedro> thats surprising
02:24 < courtc> its actually spec'd slower than a 1g-3g proc is
02:24 < voteforpedro> seeing as having slideshows etc would seem a bit more cpu intensive
02:24 < voteforpedro> hahaha
02:26 < voteforpedro> that would be cool if someone made a completely different ipodlinux for the photo with an lcd driver and made it so you could have mp4 avi playback at like 5 fps
02:26  * normalperson wonders what the ipod photo is
02:26 < joecool> normalperson: its a taco
02:26 < courtc> normalperson needs to get out more
02:26 < voteforpedro> yea id say
02:27 < normalperson> hehe, I wasn't completely sure what itunes was until a month ago, give me time
02:27 < normalperson> so, it's an ipod that stores photos
02:27 < voteforpedro> not only that
02:27 < courtc> voteforpedro- why 'make completely different ipodlinux' ?
02:27 < voteforpedro> it displays them
02:28 < voteforpedro> well because it sounds like it would be a 
02:28 < courtc> normalperson-  apple.com/ipodphoto/
02:29 < voteforpedro> *it would have to be different with the lcd support (1) a new colorful gui (2) something that displayed album art while playing the song (3) video playback (4)
02:29 < normalperson> courtc: found it already
02:29 < mrdan> why not just have all of that on the monochrome pods as well though pedro?
02:29 < mrdan> except for the colorful gui obviously
02:30 < voteforpedro> well lcd support and color gui cant be done
02:30 < voteforpedro> video playback would be worthless
02:30 < voteforpedro> the album art could be ok
02:30 < normalperson> ipod firewire cables are $20? wtf!
02:30 < normalperson> but 7 at amazon..
02:30 < voteforpedro> haha
02:31 < courtc> yea, hes right, we should completly port linux agin for the photo..  oh wait..
02:31 < normalperson> (used)
02:31 < voteforpedro> ow wait...?
02:31 < voteforpedro> ...
02:32 < courtc> yea, "oh what thats a dumb idea"
02:32 < voteforpedro> why?
02:32 < voteforpedro> not enough ipod photo owners?
02:33 < courtc> considering the current ipodlinux works and can do all of those things you mentioned porting ipodlinux again would be stupid
02:34 < voteforpedro> it cant play movie
02:34 < voteforpedro> s
02:34 < courtc> but it has the possiblity to..
02:34 < courtc> if someone ports a video player it would work..
02:35 < Grunt> That would be cool.
02:35 < voteforpedro> hell yea
02:37 < voteforpedro> do ure guys's ipods get hot?
02:38 < Grunt> no
02:38 < chungy> when I use the disk drive a lot
02:38 < courtc> my mini never does.. my 1g gets pretty warm
02:40 < voteforpedro> do u guys defrag ever? cuz mine gets hot when i do
02:41 < courtc> defragging an ipod is useless
02:41 < voteforpedro> how so (dont take this the wrong way i just defrag because i was curious to see if it would run any qucker)
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02:42 < voteforpedro> ....
02:42 < courtc> the ipods firmware tries to use the disk as little as possible
02:42 < normalperson> my ipod gets really hot
02:43 < normalperson> as my coworker says, "you have two ARMs in your pants and they're really hot"
02:43 < mrdan> that's some ridiculous humor
02:44 < courtc> the disk is what causes the heat.. its not really meant to be used constantly..
02:45 < courtc> So stuff like a defrag will bring it to so fairly high temperatures(for a disk)
02:45 < normalperson> I still don't have battery life info on regular ipods playing lossless audio
02:45 < normalperson> but yes, I was the first person to use ipodlinux as an every day audio player
02:45 < voteforpedro> then why has it been taking a while for my ipod to move around the gui lately
02:45 < courtc> do ipods play lossless audio without linux?
02:46 < normalperson> courtc: apple has their own lossless thing, which only their software can play
02:46 < voteforpedro> i hear it accessing the drive a lot when i want to go to the settings menu for example
02:46 -!- xcheddargoldfish [~xcheddarg@pcp05316387pcs.norstn01.pa.comcast.net] has quit []
02:46 < Gent> GWAR!
02:47 < courtc> voteforpedro- the gui is entirely in the ram when ipodlinux is loaded, the settings menu reads setting when it opens..
02:47 < courtc> s/ipodlinux/apple fw
02:47 < voteforpedro> ic
02:50 -!- joecool is now known as joecool|away
02:54 < jessem> Thaks coob for your help throughout the day.
02:54 -!- MaDsKiLLz [~billy@d14-69-39-34.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ipodlinux
02:55 < MaDsKiLLz> hello
02:55 < MaDsKiLLz> i was wondering, what is the state on the 4g ipods...
02:55 < MaDsKiLLz> any progress on the audio stuff
02:55 < courtc> nope
02:56 < normalperson> MaDsKiLLz: see topic
02:57 < voteforpedro> does anyone here have experiance with gmail drive?
02:57 < MaDsKiLLz> i know it is not supported, im asking what is the state on the development
02:57 -!- tx297 is now known as TX297
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02:58 < voteforpedro> ...
03:01 < voteforpedro> ...
03:02 < courtc> voteforpedro- obviously nobody does. quit with the ...
03:02 < voteforpedro> k
03:03 < jessem> VBR mp3s sound pretty bad huh?
03:04 < courtc> yep
03:04 < jedix> I don't think vbr code was included in intel's example
03:04 < jedix> so it's not that good
03:04 < voteforpedro> hey in the new apple firmware they are going to have apple ads
03:04 < voteforpedro> on the ipod
03:05 < jedix> that;s funny.
03:06 < jedix> I should learn the math and write something clevor for once..
03:06 < jedix> but it would be technically owned by my employer.. arg.
03:08 < voteforpedro> haha
03:10 -!- joecool|away is now known as joecool
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03:13 < voteforpedro> how much firmware tweaking can u do on a shuffle?
03:13 < Grunt> Go find out for us
03:13 < Grunt> =b
03:13 < mrdan> what could you possbily change
03:13 < voteforpedro> no i mean like what is apple going to do with new updates?
03:13 -!- Bieh [~chatzilla@60-234-139-174.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #ipodlinux
03:14 < mrdan> possibly add HFS support
03:14 -!- veteran [~b@70.84.20.244] has joined #ipodlinux
03:15 < voteforpedro> what is hfs (sry im dumb)
03:15 < jedix> possibly improve battery life.
03:15 < jedix> ask google.
03:15  * MaDsKiLLz watches conspiracy on the history channel
03:16 < voteforpedro> alrite who wants to guess about the release date of tiger
03:16 < voteforpedro> i say march 21st but that is wishfull thinking
03:17 < jessem> March 14th
03:17 < jedix> the ides of march
03:17 < courtc> december 12th( i'm hoping they'll announce this)
03:17 < mrdan> that's my bday
03:18 < Gent> howdy veteran
03:18 < voteforpedro> wait why are u hoping december 12th?
03:18 < voteforpedro> that is torture
03:19 < voteforpedro> i want to be able to buy a powerbook with tiger preinstalled by june
03:19 < courtc> because if they announce that date then there will be no more hubub
03:19 < veteran> hey Gent ;)
03:19 < voteforpedro> thats true 
03:19 < veteran> courtc - how are fonts coming along?
03:19 < courtc> they are fine..
03:20 < voteforpedro> how does the font system work on an ipod?
03:20 < courtc> like magic
03:20 < voteforpedro> really? what format do the fonts have to be in
03:20 < veteran> voteforpedro - they are compiled into podzilla, not easilly modified
03:21 < veteran> time to watch monk... be back later
03:21 < voteforpedro> ic
03:21 < voteforpedro> monk is sweet
03:21 < voteforpedro> his ocd is so obsessive compulsive its crazy
03:21 < voteforpedro> that made no sense
03:22 < joecool> ...
03:23 < voteforpedro> so what kind of music do you guys stock ure ipods with?
03:23 < courtc> yes
03:24 < voteforpedro> yes the band?
03:24 < courtc> no, yes as in an answer to your question
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03:26 < voteforpedro> thats a strange answer considering my question it wasnt a yes or no question it was a what kind of music do u like question
03:26 < courtc> and I like music.. so I answered yes
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03:27 < voteforpedro> but what kind of music?
03:28 < courtc> It would be easier to ask what kind of music i don't like..
03:28  * Grunt smirks
03:28 < courtc> ;)
03:28 < voteforpedro> what kind of music dont u like?
03:29 < courtc> Country
03:29 < Grunt> (who does?)
03:29 < courtc> I dunno..
03:30 < voteforpedro> good then im taking it that u like indie
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03:30 < voteforpedro> country sux btw
03:30 < courtc> not especially..
03:31 < mrdan> i dislike country and rap
03:31 < joecool> country does suck.. but rap sucks more
03:31 < courtc> the problem with 'rap' is that no-one knows what it is
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03:34 < voteforpedro> its poetry with a beat in the backround
03:34 < voteforpedro> except the poetry sucks and is uninspired
03:34 < joecool> so does the beat
03:34 < voteforpedro> its about being ghetto or having big rims or fucking white bitches etc
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03:35 < joecool> so it really just sucks
03:35 < voteforpedro> yea
03:35 < courtc> haha.. see what i mean? no-one has a clue
03:35 < joecool> courtc: do you have a clue?
03:35 < mrdan> courtc: we're referring to mainstream rapp
03:36 < mrdan> there still exists some rap that was similar to the early 80s rap which was based on energy and optimism
03:36 < courtc> 'mainstream rap' as classified by who?
03:36 < Grunt> ...as classified by "the mainstream", presumably
03:36 < courtc> haha
03:37 < Grunt> =b
03:37 < voteforpedro> or u could say the majority of american rap listeners
03:37 < courtc> just american?
03:38 < joecool> rap=crap
03:38 < joecool> one letter is all it takes
03:38 < mrdan> a majority of rap is absolutely terrible
03:38 < mrdan> that's all i'm saying
03:38 < Grunt> s/a majority of//
03:38 < voteforpedro> well i say american because i have never heard japanes israeli mexian german rap
03:38 < voteforpedro> they might be different
03:39 < courtc> haha, they are!
03:39 < Grunt> yes, because nobody outside of America could sink so low
03:40  * joecool is out - sleep
03:40 < voteforpedro> i dunno mexicans prolly could
03:41 < voteforpedro> no offense to any mexicans here or nething
03:41 < joecool> well.. i'm sure the french could go lower then the mexicans
03:41 < joecool> mexicans are just lazy.. not annoying
03:42 < joecool> no offense to mexicans, and i don't care about the french
03:42 < joecool> zZzzzzzzzzZzzzz
03:42 -!- joecool [~joecool@joecool.no-sources] has quit ["zZzZzZz"]
03:44 < voteforpedro> have any of u guys toyed around with ipod wizard atall?
03:44 < mrdan> i have
03:44 < voteforpedro> is it any good?
03:44 < mrdan> um
03:44 < mrdan> it serves its purpose
03:45 < voteforpedro> i just like how my do not disconnect symbol is a picture of a monkey with a bong now
03:46 < voteforpedro> besides that its not that great
03:46 < mrdan> it serves its intended purpose exactly as it should
03:46 < mrdan> so how is it "not that great"
03:46 < mrdan> it can replace fonts and strings and bitmaps
03:46 < mrdan> which in my opinion is very useful
03:47 < mrdan> particularly the font changing abilities
03:47 < voteforpedro> well what if the intended purpose imo is not that great
03:47 < Shadowarrior13> Woa
03:47 < voteforpedro> wouldnt it make it "not that great"
03:47 < Shadowarrior13> I toyed with iPod wizard
03:47 < Shadowarrior13> </delayedreaction>
03:48 < courtc> voteforpedro- no..
03:48 < mrdan> absolutely not
03:48 < Shadowarrior13> It got boring, way too easy
03:48 < Shadowarrior13> But I turned all of my apples into the tux
03:48 < Shadowarrior13> So I'm happy
03:48 < voteforpedro> that makes no sense
03:48 < courtc> thats like saying cp or mv or rm are 'not that great'
03:49 < voteforpedro> a rubber band serves its purpose but it definately isnt great
03:49 < voteforpedro> or what about a car is every working car great?
03:49 < courtc> rubber bands break..
03:49 < courtc> so do cars..
03:49 < voteforpedro> i would hope that you wouldnt think that
03:50 < mrdan> if it serves its intended purpose
03:50 < mrdan> it is great
03:50 < voteforpedro> ppl could write a virus that could break ipodwizard
03:50 < mrdan> ...
03:50 < mrdan> what on earth is that supposed to mean
03:50 < courtc> 'cp' _always_ does exactly what its intended to
03:51 < mrdan> people could write a virus to break windows
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03:51 < voteforpedro> i never sayed windows was great
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03:51 < Grunt> You don't need a virus to break Windows.
03:51 < mrdan> i was just trying to figure what the hell that statement meant
03:51 < Grunt> It can do that quite readily by itself. =b
03:51 < courtc> people could write a virus to break anything if they so pleased..
03:51  * mrdan laughs at grunt
03:52 -!- chungy [1000@c-24-17-43-226.client.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
03:52 < courtc> thats what mrdan's point is
03:52 < courtc> any program at least
03:53  * mrdan slaps voteforpedro around a bit with a large trout
03:53 < courtc> If a program does exactly what its intended to, and does it in a sane way, then yes, i'll say its great..
03:54 < voteforpedro> courtc - if cars can break and rubber bands (which you say would make them not great) u also said that ppl could  write a virus to break anything thus making ipodwizard "not great"
03:54 < voteforpedro> unless i missed something
03:54 < courtc> you missed something
03:55 < mrdan> just because something can somehow be destroyed does not make it not great
03:55 < courtc> I can take a slegehammer to a car also.. that'd make it break.. but a progrm shouldnt break on its own..
03:56 < courtc> cars that live up to the expectation of performing well, and exceed that expectation are considered 'great'
03:57 < courtc> (strangly enough so are cars that look cool)
03:58 < voteforpedro> then one could say that pill bottles are great because they serve there purpose
03:58 < courtc> yea, they are
03:58 < courtc> ipodwizard performs superbly at what it is intended to do..
03:58 < courtc> (so i hear)
03:58 < voteforpedro> there you go
03:58 < voteforpedro> finally something i agree with
03:59 < voteforpedro> until now everyone has said ipodwizard is great
03:59 < courtc> no
03:59 < courtc> you havent been paying attention
03:59 < voteforpedro> t serves its intended purpose exactly as it should
04:00 < voteforpedro> sry that copy didnt work
04:00 < courtc> yes, and thats what we've been saying all along
04:00 < voteforpedro> quote someone saying that ipodwizard performs superbly at what it is intended t
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04:00 < voteforpedro> o do
04:00 < voteforpedro> or similair to that
04:00 < mrdan> you cant say that a program is not great if you simply do not like its purpose
04:02 < courtc> I for example dislike the purpose of ipodwizard.. I think its silly.. but that doent mean that its not a great program..
04:03 < voteforpedro> i think great is overused
04:03 < voteforpedro> where does good go then?
04:03 < voteforpedro> or ok?
04:03 < voteforpedro> and everything in the spectrum between awful and great
04:05 < courtc> I think you are missing the point here.. I doesnt matter if the program is great, good, ok, mediocre, crappy, nasty-bad, horrible or awesome.. the point is that it has nothing to do with your opinion of its purpose..
04:06 < mrdan> wonderfully put
04:06 < voteforpedro> but to say that everything that served its purpose is great is pushing it
04:06 < voteforpedro> u would be living in a utopia if that was so
04:07 < mrdan> you are still missing the point
04:07 < voteforpedro> no im not
04:07 < voteforpedro> i understand
04:07 < mrdan> you cannot evaluate something based on your opinion of its purpose
04:07 < voteforpedro> we are not looking at my opinion of the purpose
04:07 < mrdan> ipodwizard coudl very well be terrible
04:08 < mrdan> but you cannot base that statement solely on your opinion of its purpose
04:08 < voteforpedro> but one might also say that a terrorist that kills a lot of people is great
04:08 < voteforpedro> if what you are saying is true
04:08 < mrdan> that's a value judgement.
04:09 < mrdan> we're not saying that everything that serves its intended purpose is great
04:09 < mrdan> just that you cannot say wether something is great or not based on
04:09 < courtc> hes great at killing people.. that doesnt make 'great' good
04:09 < mrdan> your opinion of its purpose
04:09 < voteforpedro> ic
04:10 < voteforpedro> great is too widely used then
04:10 < courtc> like i said "If a program does exactly what its intended to, and does it in a sane way, then yes, i'll say its great.."
04:10 < voteforpedro> because i said the terrorist is great and u said the terrorist is great at killing eople
04:10 < voteforpedro> p*
04:11 < mrdan> and yes if he can kill a lot of people then he is great at killing people
04:11 < voteforpedro> yes but thats not what i said
04:11 < voteforpedro> i just said great
04:11 < voteforpedro> one might say that windows is great
04:11 -!- my_concept [~tl@c-67-166-167-125.client.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
04:11 < voteforpedro> and you could say it is great at being unstable
04:11 < courtc> haha.. good point
04:11 < voteforpedro> so then everything would have to be great in one way
04:11 < veteran> i'm not scrolling up.
04:11 < courtc> veteran- dont
04:12 < mrdan> everything is great at something
04:12 < mrdan> great is not overused
04:12 < veteran> thanks, i probably owe you my life now
04:12 < mrdan> its an adjective
04:12 < mrdan> and it's used as it should be
04:12 < Gent> EvilDude needs to emerge
04:12 < voteforpedro> well if i follow your guidelines
04:12 < voteforpedro> and use it how it should be
04:12 < voteforpedro> i could say that everything is greaty
04:12 < voteforpedro> great*
04:13 < mrdan> no you cant
04:13 < mrdan> you can say that everything is great at something
04:13 < voteforpedro> well then one might argue
04:13 < voteforpedro> that in order to be great
04:13 < voteforpedro> you would have to be great at numerous things
04:13 < voteforpedro> if not everything
04:14 < mrdan> not at all
04:14 < courtc> alright.. I'm done with this subject.. continue if you wish, but I'm gonna go delay making a dev environment a little longer
04:14 < veteran> dev environment?
04:14 < mrdan> great, without attaching another clause to it, has positive connotations
04:15 < voteforpedro> yes
04:15 < courtc> yea, I got my main dev box back.. decided to reinstall
04:15 < veteran> take this discussion to #english pleeeassee
04:15 < voteforpedro> hold on
04:15 < mrdan> i need to go do homework
04:15 < mrdan> enough of this nonsense
04:16 < voteforpedro> how do u define positive connotations
04:16 < voteforpedro> isnt that based off of opinion
04:16 < mrdan> wtf is that supposed to mean
04:16 < mrdan> do, tell me your point
04:16 < voteforpedro> define positive connotations
04:16 < veteran> "great job!" is not based on opinion
04:17 < voteforpedro> i suppose
04:17 < veteran> great means a superlative _good_
04:17 < voteforpedro> but now are we getting into human emotions
04:17 < veteran> no, we're not
04:17 < voteforpedro> i dont know
04:17 < voteforpedro> it just seems like those things are so hard to define
04:18 < veteran> me either, but i decided to talk
04:18 < mrdan> what do you mean by "those things"?
04:18 < voteforpedro> such as good
04:18 < voteforpedro> like those being positive things
04:18 < mrdan> as veteran said
04:18 < mrdan> superlative
04:19 < voteforpedro> i know
04:19 < voteforpedro> i guess you are right
04:19 < voteforpedro> at least according to the dictionary
04:19 < mrdan> point is
04:19 < voteforpedro> Being positive or desirable in nature; not bad or poor: a good experience; good news from the hospital.
04:19 < mrdan> you are wrong to say that ipodwiz is not great solely based on your opinion of its purpose
04:20 < voteforpedro> i agree
04:20 < Gent> what the hell is ipodwiz?
04:20 < mrdan> then we're done
04:20 < Gent> I thought I was the ipodwiz
04:20 < mrdan> ipodwizard
04:20 < mrdan> the program
04:20 < voteforpedro> but i have to say you cant just label things great either
04:20 < Gent> is that the installer?
04:20 < veteran> ah, IRC! where else could random people argue over such an incoincedental topic?
04:20 < mrdan> meaning what
04:21 < voteforpedro> i think depending on how good it serves its job
04:21 < voteforpedro> it can be rated anywhere from great to bad
04:21 < voteforpedro> or in between
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04:21 < mrdan> um, ok
04:21 < voteforpedro> i just dont think being great is that easy
04:21 < Gent> yeah, so is that the installer?
04:21 < mrdan> no
04:21 < mrdan> google it if you want to know
04:22 < voteforpedro> i have to go
04:22 < voteforpedro> goodnight
04:22 < mrdan> goodbye
04:22 < veteran> have a great night
04:22 < Gent> sounds pretty sucky
04:22 < voteforpedro> i will think of more topics to argue over later
04:22 < mrdan> bring it on bitch
04:22 < mrdan> haha
04:22 < voteforpedro> most of which i will lose
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04:22 < mrdan> that was absolutely ridiculous
04:23 < mrdan> and i will never get that part of my life back
04:25 < veteran> maybe you should kill yourself
04:25 < mrdan> dont tempt me
04:26 < mrdan> in other nwes
04:26 < mrdan> http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/85/656/10x7/twip_2002_0606_05.jpg
04:27 < Gent> that is the most useless thing I've ever seen a picture of in my life
04:27 < mrdan> impossible
04:28 < veteran> i think i've found a new favorite sport
04:29 < mrdan> ha
04:35 < Gent> mmmMMMM getting better
04:37 < Gent> which I had xvidcap working to show you guys
04:37 < Gent> wish*
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04:40 < veteran> words cannot explain how much i hate my isp
04:41 < Gent> how bout a picture? that's worth 1000 words
04:42 < veteran> 1024*
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05:01 < Hostile> night all
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05:20 < racter> You guys support audible audio book format yet?
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05:33 < ssteve> wahoo
05:33 < EvilDude> ?
05:33 < heloo> hi
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05:33 < racter> :)
05:34 < ssteve> button input on my project
05:34 < ssteve> works
05:34 < EvilDude> haha cool :P
05:35 < EvilDude> what's your project
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05:37 < ssteve> its a stepmania (dance dance revolution) clone
05:37 < EvilDude> haha cool
05:38 < Gent> EvilDude!
05:40 < EvilDude> hey gent
05:40 < EvilDude> I read your email
05:40 < EvilDude> I think i might try iTunes thing ;)
05:40 < Gent> I've gotten the menu thing a bit better
05:40 < EvilDude> yeah?
05:41 < Gent> there's still something strange going on...
05:41 < Gent> now it seems I can go however many deep...etc...
05:41 < Gent> but the minute I use like the contrast setting
05:41 < Gent> or say the file browser
05:41 < Gent> and go one back, and then to another similar setting on the list, it'll seg fault
05:42 < EvilDude> oh =\
05:42 < EvilDude> I think the grow is the problem for that
05:43 < Gent> in what way though?
05:43 < EvilDude> if they're only 2 things causing seg fault
05:44 < EvilDude> well they're only things that use grow at the moment,   rewriting memory of menus somewhere else perhaps?
05:44 < Gent> well it's weird...cause I can open infinitely deep menus in the filebrowser and close all those
05:44 < Gent> and even restart it from the root and do it again
05:44 < Gent> it's only when I fall back to an already used menu and try something different
05:44 < courtc> the solution is gdb ;)
05:44 < Gent> took out -g today
05:45 < Gent> and gdb didn't give us much last time
05:45 < EvilDude> well put -g in so you can use gdb ;)
05:45 < Gent> printf's helped a whole lot more
05:45 < EvilDude> haha that's coz i have no idea how to use it :P
05:45 < Gent> well I'm still working on the event handling stuff
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05:45 < Gent> to make sure custom event handlers work
05:46 < Gent> cause I already know the file growth in the file browser window isn't getting freed
05:46 < EvilDude> hmm ok
05:46 < EvilDude> brb
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05:48 < courtc> thats the one thing that is a big pet peeve of mine.. I would rather not use something than have it not free
05:48 < courtc> even for testing.. it it doenst free.. arg..
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05:53 < EvilDude> back for a few seconds
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05:54 < EvilDude> Gent: should i get latest source
05:54 < EvilDude> or just work on itunes on source i have
05:54 < EvilDude> i'll start work on that in about 15 mins probably
05:54 < Gent> umm....
05:54 < Gent> prob grab off me
05:54 < Gent> give me like 10 mins though
05:55 < courtc> why dont you leave itunes stuff out of ptk/podzilla ? 
05:55 < Gent> ummm....
05:55 < EvilDude> k
05:56 < EvilDude> courtc: what do you mean?
05:56 < courtc> no imagination
05:57 < Gent> I've talked before about replacing it
05:57 < Gent> but that wouldn't be till after, when everything else is a feasible replacement for the apple firmware
05:57 < Gent> and I can buy an ipod and put JUST linux on it
05:57 < EvilDude> yep agreed
05:57 < Gent> and never have to worry about apple's stuff again
05:57 < EvilDude> I think iTunes stays till iPodLinux can replace apple completely
05:57 < EvilDude> And then we can have scripts to make mpd db's etc
05:57 < EvilDude> and then just use MPD everywhere
05:58 < courtc> Obviously I'm talking about mpd/client it by itself replacess iTunesDB and provides many more features..
05:58 < racter> if it was me I'd call up roger over at real and say 'dood, lets work together so that your music downloads to our linux ipods'
05:58 < Gent> Evil, I'm gonna wrap what I got, cause I want to show you what's going on now before you start in on that
05:59 < EvilDude> ok well i gotta go out for few min
05:59 < EvilDude> i'll be back in about 5 o 10 mins
05:59 < Gent> ok, then I'll do a few more quick things
05:59 < EvilDude> yep
06:00 < racter> Actually, you guys should totally engage real and get them to fund ya
06:02 < racter> you could see it 'click here to download linuxipod installer' and get 5 downloads free
06:03 < racter> could probably get free office space and nice paychecks out of it
06:07 < Gent> http://www.dotink.org/podzilla/packages/ptk-x11-current.tar.bz2
06:07 < Gent> http://www.dotink.org/podzilla/packages/podzilla-x11-current.tar.bz2
06:08 < racter> damn music synth is getting scary nowdays, check this out http://24.18.197.62:8080/tunes/fate.mp3 its all synth... even the talking
06:09 < Gent> the new Makefile shouldn't compile against freetype either EvilDude
06:09 < Gent> also the Demo is no longer compiled
06:10 < Gent> the major change that I did was in the initialization and general window management...
06:11 < Gent> Podzilla handles the Microwindows init now, rather than PTK, PTK creates a pseudoroot window which you can assign a window to by setting it's parent to NULL
06:11 < Gent> pretty much all windows are spawned under the pseudoroot now... rather than from main_window
06:12 < Gent> so any menu is a child of the pseudoroot, rather than the main menu -- the main menu itself is a child of that
06:12 < EvilDude> ok back
06:12 < Gent> read my past 10 lines or so
06:12 < Gent> from your perspective, nothing changes though
06:12 < EvilDude> rep read them
06:12 < EvilDude> yeah
06:12 < EvilDude> yep*
06:13 < Gent> you still use pz_new_window just the same
06:13 < EvilDude> ah cool
06:13 < Gent> but as a test, go in real deep into your filestructure or something
06:14 < Gent> then hit m, and you'll get all the way back
06:14 < Gent> or you should
06:15 < EvilDude> hmm well i dunno
06:15 < Gent> ???
06:15 < EvilDude> going back is fine
06:15 < EvilDude> i went to file browser
06:15 < EvilDude> open a directory
06:15 < EvilDude> go back
06:15 < EvilDude> and then open same or another directory
06:15 < EvilDude> causes seg fault
06:15 < Gent> right
06:15 < Gent> but before it used to seg fault going back from 2nd level dirs
06:15 < Gent> go to filebrowser and go like 30 dirs deep
06:15 < EvilDude> yeah thats working fine now
06:16 < Gent> like /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/
06:16 < EvilDude> also i think we need some way of going right back to menu and close everything in the middle
06:16 < EvilDude> like hold down menu or something'
06:17 < Gent> EvilDude, is there something to do that in the apple firmware?
06:17 < Gent> the problem is the windows have no clue how you got there, they don't care, nor should they, so to close everything in between it'd just close a bunch of window's filling in the slots from where you were to 0
06:17 < Gent> which might not necessarily be the windows in between
06:17 < Gent> it might have been another one spawned earlier that you never wanted closed
06:18 < EvilDude> hmm
06:18 < EvilDude> apple doesnt have it but it would be good
06:19 < EvilDude> like cant it just send menu basically :P
06:19 < Gent> the way the seek goes, it's meant to push linear, UNLESS you minimize a window without closing
06:19 < Gent> then it's linear from that point after
06:19 < Gent> but NOT from before that point (the root menu) until after
06:19 < Gent> EvilDude, well my idea was to have a Window list thing off the main menu or in Extra's
06:19 < Gent> called "Windows"
06:20 < Gent> that would list the windows
06:20 < EvilDude> yeah
06:20 < Gent> so you could warp to whatever or "close all windows"
06:20 < Gent> it could make a new root menu
06:20 < EvilDude> hmm what about just show the minimized main menu
06:20 < EvilDude> leaving the other windows open
06:21 < EvilDude> just minimized or something
06:21 < Gent> actually wait... yeah
06:21 < Gent> I suppose it could
06:21 < Gent> just max in the main_window
06:21 < Gent> yeah, I suppose that would work fine
06:21 < EvilDude> yeah
06:21 < Gent> the problem is we're clutting the keys with timing things
06:21 < EvilDude> yeah :(
06:21 < EvilDude> i think have that optional
06:21 < EvilDude> Like instead of backlight
06:22 < Gent> My idea was to mimic normal key movement as close to the ipod as possible
06:22 < Gent> which is why I made it linear like that
06:22 < EvilDude> yeah
06:22 < Gent> and why I said we should drop the <<'s
06:22 < EvilDude> have all the normal options same, but does << do anything at the moment?
06:22 < EvilDude> yeah
06:22 < Gent> not at the moment, but it's going to do 3 things in the end
06:22 < Gent> hehehe
06:22 < EvilDude> lol what things?
06:23 < Gent> single hit, back a track, long hit shift window from left to right, and continually hold rewind
06:23 < Gent> short hit is defined as < 500
06:23 < EvilDude> hmm that is gonna be hard :P
06:23 < EvilDude> ah 
06:23 < Gent> miliseconds that is
06:23 < EvilDude> yeah
06:23 < EvilDude> i hoped so :p
06:23 < Gent> EvilDude, it's not hard at all
06:23 < EvilDude> no not to code
06:23 < Gent> long hit is anything over that, continually hold is when it doesn't detect a key up within a second
06:24 < EvilDude>  i mean to remember when im using ;)
06:24 < Gent> You shouldn't have to remember
06:24 < EvilDude> ok so <500<100 is long hit
06:24 < EvilDude> that shouldnt be too bad i suppose
06:24 < racter> is anyone working on the harmonics in your playback?
06:24 < EvilDude> but 2 things at once could get bad 
06:24 < Gent> what you mean 2 things at once?
06:24 < EvilDude> well i mean more like say i want to go back a window
06:24 < EvilDude> i hold << for a bit too long
06:24 < EvilDude> and it starts rewinding :P
06:24 < EvilDude> nothign too bad though so its ok
06:24 < Gent> you'll get used to it
06:25 < Gent> and that's the "risk" you take with the optional functionality
06:25 < Gent> hehehe
06:25 < Gent> but for normal usage you won't see a difference
06:25 < EvilDude> yeah
06:25 < Gent> cause right now you hit the button fairly fast to go previous track
06:25 < EvilDude> yeah
06:25 < Gent> and to rewind you hold it until it starts rewinding
06:25 < Gent> and then kinda play it by ear
06:26 < Gent> so most people may not even know the other function exists
06:26 < Gent> which is good
06:26 < Gent> it won't confuse them
06:27 < EvilDude> yeah
06:28 < Gent> in the end I may have it move different directions depending on what you're doing
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06:29 < Gent> cause right now you can't tell the difference between minimize and close
06:29 < EvilDude> yeah
06:29 < Gent> I might have it so if you minimize it moves downwards
06:29 < Gent> and if you shift left it slides off to the right
06:29 < Gent> if you shift right it slides off to the left
06:29 < Gent> if you close... errr, not sure yet
06:29 < Gent> it could go up...
06:30 < EvilDude> brb
06:30 < Gent> I'd rather see it just disappear if you close
06:30 < EvilDude> back  
06:30 < EvilDude> and   for close a fade!! :D
06:30 < Gent> like how it just sorta appears when you open
06:30 < EvilDude> a very very fast fade ;)?
06:31 < Gent> yeah, let's code composite extension into microwindows
06:31 < Gent> no thanks
06:31 < EvilDude> haha it would be awesome!
06:31 < EvilDude> but for now not exactly that important either =\
06:31 < Gent> nah, cause even with it you'd only see 4 visible fades
06:31 < EvilDude> I'll try to get iTuneslib done :P
06:31 < Gent> cause it can only produce 4 colors
06:31 < EvilDude> haha yeah
06:31 < EvilDude> well actually 
06:32 < EvilDude> rockbox supposedly can achieve more colors than just black and white by turning on the colors it has VERY quickly
06:32 < Gent> no Rush on itunes...
06:32 < EvilDude> ;)
06:32 < Gent> rockbox?
06:32 < EvilDude> i think if we get iTunes and mp3 playback done it'll be a very good moral boost to say the least ;)
06:32 < courtc> haha you dont know what rockbox is?
06:32 < EvilDude> rockbox = alternative firmware for the archos and iriver now too
06:33 < Gent> no, why should I know what rockbox is?
06:33 < EvilDude> damn them with so many many devs
06:33 < EvilDude> very amazing open source firmware see ;)
06:33 < courtc> because it is a very similar project
06:33 < racter> why would anyone care about alternate firmware for an archos? its crap
06:33 < EvilDude> haha well its for irivertoo
06:33 < Gent> courtc, and?
06:33 < EvilDude> and care because well the interest here is that its similar type of thing
06:34 < EvilDude> and they're sucessful too   it'll happen to iPodLinux one day too ;)
06:34 < EvilDude> like no actual firmware needed just the open source
06:34 < courtc> we share a lot of goals
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06:34 < Gent> EvilDude, I'll prob convert mine over once mp3 playback is full
06:34 < Gent> to fully open source that is
06:35 < EvilDude> convert what over?
06:35 < Gent> courtc, but I don't use an iriver, nor do I care what exists for an iriver... nor do I think they're in the same boat
06:35 < EvilDude> ohhh
06:35 < Gent> my iPod
06:35 < Gent> get rid of dual boot
06:35 < EvilDude> it isnt fully open source at the moment??
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06:36 < EvilDude> ohh yeah
06:36 < EvilDude> tahts what i want to do
06:36 < EvilDude> see you can do that with rockbox already with archos
06:36 < racter> I'm actually offended that someone would infer iriver and ipod are in the same boat... let alone same ocean
06:36 < EvilDude> which is why they're known :P
06:36 < EvilDude> hahaha
06:36 < Gent> they got better hardware?
06:36 < EvilDude> iriver does,  well 140mhz cpu compared to 2 90's.. but there's is coldfire we got arm
06:36 < EvilDude> better in other parts though
06:36 < EvilDude> like digital inputs outputs
06:36 < EvilDude> FM radio's etc
06:36 < courtc> you arent very open minded either.. they have alot of similar code..
06:37 < Gent> yeah, single 140 would help us though
06:37 < racter> If it wasnt for the super small rom in the shuffle I'd say someone should build some firmware that uses a voice interface... move the shuffle slide down for last song, up for next song, or in the middle for play
06:37 < racter> and it could say 'song 5, song 6, song 7' thru the headphones
06:37 < EvilDude> haha
06:38 < EvilDude> shuffle isnt worth it ;)
06:38 < Gent> ractor, someone was talking about going with voice stuff just for seeing impared people in ours
06:38 < Gent> I'm all for it if it's modular/optional to compile in
06:38 < racter> allot of work for very little bang
06:39 < racter> I'll donate $10k to the project if you guys make the standard build play an mp3 on startup that says 'Stevo is deaf'
06:39 < EvilDude> well once the project actually has a lto features and devs have time why not ;)
06:40 < EvilDude> that was at the impaired people thing
06:40 < Gent> Evil, also, not sure if you noticed, I adjusted some of the size calculations to be more dynamic
06:40 < racter> heh, he sued me for $2m for saying he was deaf
06:40 < courtc> haha.. $10k would be nice, but jobs wouldnt like that
06:40 < racter> he lost of course, but just the attempt pissed me off
06:41 < Gent> right now the footer is like 5 pixels lower than it should be though...
06:41 < Gent> not sure what's up with that
06:41 < Gent> unless I calced it's position wrong
06:41 < EvilDude> haha
06:41 < Gent> errr, rather, it's the listbox windows that don't fill it
06:41 < courtc> he sued you? thats fairly sad
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06:42 < racter> yea, over the wired article
06:42 < Gent> really doesn't make any sense....
06:43 < courtc> haha.. what a waste..
06:43 < racter> welp, time to head out
06:44 < racter> seriously, 10k... 'stevo is deaf'... maybe something about 'linux spanks the lhama's ass' would make me happy too, but the deaf thing for sure
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06:44 < racter> nite!
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06:46 < Gent> I should combine the max and min, so the one being maxed slides in as the one being minned slides out
06:46 < Gent> just call it like pz_window_shift
06:47 < EvilDude> yeah
06:47 < EvilDude> should ;)
06:47 < Gent> that way there I can do the up and down too
06:47 < Gent> and left and right
06:47 < Gent> I'll do that in like 5 mins
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06:47 < EvilDude> yeah
06:47 < EvilDude> well i'm still trying to see how i can get PTK around itunesmenu 
06:47 < EvilDude> its so ugly =\
06:48 < EvilDude> it doesnt have any list structure rather displays a list like as you go through from the info there,   no set max  nothing
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06:49 < Gent> EvilDude, doesn't it use the libitunes thing or whatever?
06:49 < EvilDude> yeah but the interface is very messy
06:49 < Gent> there's no simple API from that?
06:49 < Gent> screw the interface, just rip the libitunes lines out and redo the interface
06:49 < Gent> that's why I said it'd be pointless to inject PTK into the current podzilla
06:49 < Gent> it's gonna need recoding anyway
06:50 < EvilDude> hmm i think that's even worse
06:50 < Gent> it's not like it'll take you long to make a list with PTK
06:50 < EvilDude> yeah but thing is
06:50 < EvilDude> the interface was written by person who made lib
06:50 < EvilDude> and   well it isn't simple to use for someone who doesnt know how ;)
06:50 < EvilDude> better to recode what's there
06:51 < EvilDude> i'll make it work though im sure
06:51 < EvilDude> btw, why am i using PTK_INT rather than int
06:51 < Gent> PTK_INT is INT
06:51 < Gent> errr is int
06:51 < EvilDude> i know
06:51 < EvilDude> but why is it redefined
06:51 < Gent> but maybe one day we'll need more than a normal int
06:51 < EvilDude> why not jsut int
06:51 < Gent> and we can redefine PTK_INT as long
06:51 < Gent> etc...
06:51 < EvilDude> hmm
06:51 < EvilDude> mk
06:51 < Gent> like I said yesterday, so we don't have to change all instances
06:52 < EvilDude> yeah
06:52 < Gent> same reasoning for PTK_CHAR and PTK_CH
06:52 < EvilDude> hmm in a struct
06:52 < EvilDude> i have 	PTK_WIDGET * list
06:52 < EvilDude> can i make it PTK_WIDGET * list = NULL
06:52 < EvilDude> i cant in a struct can i
06:52 < EvilDude> (declaraction of the struct not a variable)
06:52 < Gent> not sure... btw though
06:52 < Gent> not sure if you looked at your menu code
06:52 < EvilDude> yeah
06:52 < Gent> but I took the listbox and widget thing out of the structure for those
06:52 < EvilDude> didnt
06:53 < EvilDude> hmm ok
06:53 < Gent> you know how before you had like  menu->listox and menu->window
06:53 < Gent> or like menu->listbox->additem
06:53 < EvilDude> yep
06:53 < EvilDude> where did they go
06:53 < Gent> local to the function
06:53 < EvilDude> ah
06:54 < EvilDude> does that work..
06:54 < Gent> yeah
06:54 < EvilDude> cool
06:54 < Gent> you don't need them in the structure
06:54 < EvilDude> even if you open multiple copies etc though?
06:54 < EvilDude> ok
06:54 < Gent> in fact, I was surprised they DID work there
06:54 < EvilDude> haha
06:54 < EvilDude> i can make crazy things work ;)
06:54 < Gent> if you open multiple copies of EC it should be creating a new listbox for that new window
06:55 < Gent> ETC*
06:55 < Gent> whops
06:55 < EvilDude> ok
06:55 < Gent> though you were talking directory
06:55 < Gent> hehehe
06:55 < Gent> but yeah
06:55 < Gent> if you open multiple copies... should be redoing em
06:55 < Gent> not redoing em
06:56 < Gent> Evil, the way you did it they would have shared the window, right?
06:56 < EvilDude> hmm ?
06:56 < EvilDude> ah yeah
06:56 < Gent> and the listbox for that matter
06:56 < EvilDude> yep
06:56 < Gent> yeah, it would have lost the old ones or whatever
06:56 < Gent> cause it would have called the pz_new_window thing
06:56 < Gent> and replaced the pointer in the structure
06:57 < Gent> and the old pointer would have been lost
06:57 < Gent> know what I'm saying?
06:57 < EvilDude> yep
06:57 < Gent> there would have been no cleanup
06:57 < Gent> some lost widget just floating out there, someone's child, maybe someone's brother, but no one to look at it
06:57 < Gent> hehehe
06:57 < EvilDude> lol
06:57 < EvilDude> multiple window opening = hell :(
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06:58 < EvilDude> should make PTK open existing window?
06:58 < Gent> why's that?
06:58 < EvilDude> wouldnt that be a lot easier
06:58 < EvilDude> multiple windows of same thing seem pretty useless to me
06:58 < Gent> EvilDude, it's an OPTION you should have
06:58 < Gent> normal usage won't do that
06:59 < Gent> again, normal usage is completely linear
06:59 < EvilDude> when would you need multiple windows
06:59 < Gent> you don't open two, as to get back to where you opened it you'd destroy the old one first
06:59 < Gent> you probably wouldn't... at least not NEED them
07:00 < EvilDude> no i mean in like a power user case
07:00 < EvilDude> when would you use same window twice
07:00 < Gent> I don't know
07:00 < Gent> but it's there, if you did need it
07:00 < Gent> no clue what the future holds
07:01 < EvilDude> rofl
07:01 < Gent> some people are strange like that, like my friend who opens gaim twice to log on to two different names
07:02 < courtc> yea, but.. nm
07:02 < Gent> I asked him if he knew it hat multiple account logon... and he said, yeah, but he prefered to have two open
07:02 < Gent> courtc, I know, it's different data
07:03 < EvilDude> hmm whats structure for post test while loop
07:03 < EvilDude> do {body} while ( condition) ?
07:04 < Gent> no clue...
07:04 < Gent> I NEVER use those
07:04 < Gent> I got a good reference page though that it might be on
07:04 < EvilDude> hmm ok
07:04 < EvilDude> its ok google
07:04 < EvilDude> ok i gotta go for a bit
07:04 < EvilDude> i'll be back later
07:05 < Gent> http://www.its.strath.ac.uk/courses/c/
07:05 < EvilDude> cya, i'll work on itunes too
07:05 < EvilDude> k thax
07:05 < EvilDude> thanks*
07:05 < courtc>  EvilDude yea, that'll work
07:05 < courtc> with a semicolon at the end
07:05 < Gent> I'm gonna combine those other things and try and keep working the event handling to make sure it's freeing the right crap
07:08 < PusherRobot> anyone think the processor of the ipod photo is strong enough to support a video player?
07:09 < rage_> I doubt it does in the sense of... grab ye divx movie and hit the play button
07:10 < PusherRobot> gameboy advance does though.
07:10 < rage_> might do if precropped the video and used a cpu friendly compression format
07:11 < PusherRobot> hmmm
07:11 < PusherRobot> it'd be pretty hot
07:12 < Gent> hahahah, I'm a stoog
07:12 < rage_> ttp://www.archos.com/products/prw_500595.html <-- GIVE!!
07:12 < rage_> err, add a h to that ttp: :-)
--- Log closed Mon Feb 28 07:18:41 2005